Lee Jussim

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183 appearances 1 recordings 1 series first heard Dec 2024 last heard Dec 2024

Lee Jussim’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.

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The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast · 507. The Insanity of Woke Psychologists | Lee Jussim · 16 Dec 2024 podcast

Yes, absolutely. We're all racists, and the whole thing was racist, and an abuse of editorial power, and there's all these accusations. Right, and the editor loses his position. He loses his position, and these two special editors are brought in. Negotiations go on for almost two years. Like, what are they negotiating about? Who's going to... So, part of Robert's denunciation...

public denunciation of all of us was he posted the draft of his commentary response that was headed for the discussion forum and the full set of emails he exchanged with Fiedler. about publishing it. And those are typically confidential communications between an editor and an author. And so... Or at least typically private. Yes, right. They're typically private. So that...

That added to the difficulty on the part of the special editors to decide what to do because they didn't want to just publish those. Roberts didn't agree not to at first. Fiedler, they wanted Fiedler's permission first. to publish the correspondence, he wouldn't grant it.

blew up the journal by firing Fiedler. Right, right, which is like an admission of fault. And about two-thirds of the editorial board resigned when he was ousted. That was protest resignation. Yeah, I don't know whether it was protest. We know they resigned, whether it was protest or not.

Right. I mean, these are generally...

Right, exactly. Right, okay. So the journal was a mess for a long time, and these editors—and there was this exchange between the editors, Roberts, Fiedler, and the other contributors, myself and the other contributors— about whether and when to publish it. And again, this went on for almost two years. So there was like, first a discussion, we're going to publish it. Then there was radio silence.

Well, it turns out we've run into an obstacle. Can we resolve? And it just went on for almost two years. Eventually that was resolved and it was all published. It's all published. And... You know, your original question was framed as, you can't believe I haven't been subject to cancellation. In fact, I have. I have. You then asked, well, how did you survive it? So let me add this little punchline.

At the time that all this was happening, my immediate associate dean, so I was chair of the psychology department at Rutgers, and... Rutgers is in the School of Arts and Sciences. The School of Arts and Sciences has a dean. But the School of Arts and Sciences at Rutgers is gigantic. Even as chair, I had very little direct contact with the dean. The dean was doing big deanly things.

But the department chairs have a lot of contact with an associate chair. So there might be an associate chair for the sciences. Associate dean. Dean? Associate dean, yeah, sorry. Associate dean, yeah, sorry. Associate dean. So there'd be an associate dean for math, for STEM, associate dean for social science, and associate dean for humanities.

I had a lot to do with the associate dean for social sciences, who was a psychologist from the psychology department. Okay, so I never actually had this conversation exactly with him, but I'm pretty sure he knew about the whole thing. A year, so at the end of my term, so this is now 2023, I go on sabbatical. Remember, this event occurred, the POPs event occurred in 2022.

It's not till almost two years later that this stuff was published. So I complete my term as department chair 2022. 2022, 23, I go on sabbatical, still not published. And then at the end of that sabbatical term, the associate dean approaches me with an offer to chair the anthropology department. Okay, so this is very weird. Yeah, definitely. It's very weird.

There was an internal political snafu, which is beyond the scope of this discussion. and they couldn't appoint an internal chair, and they wanted an external, you know, the department needed a chair, the dean's office had a lot of faith and confidence in my ability.

One of the things they said to me was, you know, this is going to be a difficult situation because the department is not going to be happy about having an outside chair imposed on them, but we know you have a thick skin. Wow. And I parlayed that into a very large raise. Jordan, it was one of the best things I've ever done.

So not only did I escape cancellation, I parlayed it into an improvement in the quality.

Jordan, I wouldn't wish that, at the time that it was happening, it was horrible. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. In hindsight, it has made me a better person, and I wouldn't undo it now if I could.

Yeah. Well, no, FIRE, the same outfit, Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, keeps a faculty under FIRE database of faculty who have been subject usually to mobs, sometimes administrative investigations, seeking to punish them for what should have been legitimate speech protected by academic freedom or even free speech. At U.S. state colleges, there are...

subject to the First Amendment, which means they shouldn't be in the business. However, hypothetically. Well, yeah. Well, yeah. But they have documented that hundreds of faculty have been fired for what should have been legitimately protected speech.

Well, I will. So... Or liberals for that matter. Your metaphor about the dragon is dead on. That there's no guarantee, you know, people have lost their livelihoods running into these dragons. So that's not, I mean, I've been fortunate that way.

Yeah, yeah. So that was not my first, as I mentioned at the beginning, this was not my first go around with this kind of thing. It helps to have some experience. It helps to have done some reading. People have addressed – there are some good articles and essays out there about what to do when you're subject to these attacks. Some of them have very good – make very good points.

And so get – about six months ago – I, again, I posted an essay on my sub stack. What's the name of your sub stack? Unsafe Science. Unsafe Science. It's called my Vita of Denunciation. Okay. And it's called my Vita of Denunciation because it goes through several of these sorts of attacks that I have been through. And how, first place, it also goes through the tactics. It's a short version.

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