Leslie Kean
speaker
92 appearances
1 recordings
1 series
first heard Mar 2025
last heard Mar 2025
Leslie Kean’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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Appearances
Now the government is saying, yeah, there are these objects and we have the technology, which we never had before, of capturing them on video. So I think that's where the emphasis is. The other stuff you just can't document. I get accounts all the time, people calling me up and saying, listen, this happened to me, but I can't do anything with it because there's no proof. So that's where we are.
But the other part of it, the technology, is really moving ahead pretty quickly. And this stuff as you know that the government has in its coffers that has never been revealed to the public. That's what we're hoping we can get more of because this stuff does exist and the public deserves to know about it.
Yeah. No, that's clearly the biggest mystery around. But it is the most intractable. And there seems to be no way of documenting it. But what we do have now, not only do we have the military videos that are coming out, but we have whistleblowers coming forward. like David Grush and Jake Barber and others, who are coming forward with really fascinating accounts of interacting with the hardware.
And I think that's where the emphasis has to be because there's no shortage of accounts of individual people, ordinary people, interacting with other intelligence and seeing – having alien encounters, et cetera. But it's a dead end for now. We can't document it. We can't prove it. And, you know, as I said, I get these accounts every day, people coming forward with stories.
But what are you going to do with that? The other stuff, the military stuff, is really much more accessible. And I think that's where we have to put our focus for now.
He was, and I was gripped by his story. He really risked his reputation. He came from an interesting family. He came from a rather wealthy family. His father was a professor. You know, talk about the strange things that happened. I went to City College. The City College of New York was a public institution, very highly regarded.
And when I was there, John Mack's father was in the English department. Now, I knew his name. I didn't know him. I didn't have a course with him. I certainly didn't ask him about his son, who was at that point not yet investigating UFOs, studying psychiatry. But anyway... So Mac came from this fairly prominent family.
Interestingly enough, his mother died when he was eight months old of appendicitis. She was pretty prominent herself, came from the Rheingold family of beer brewers.
and so he came from a kind of a wealthy background and he was a real leader in psychiatry he was a very he was a social activist he believed in trying to make the world better he thought he could bring peace to the Middle East he met with Yasser Arafat he lectured in the Middle East and he marched against nuclear weapons he was arrested in your neck of the woods up there and
at some of the test sites, the atomic test sites. So he was very active, politically active, and As, again, often happens, he got interested in these strange healing methods where you relax or you go into hypnosis and your body can project itself, astral projection. And that was his introduction to the world, the paranormal world. He didn't believe in it at first at all. But...
he met the Stan Groff who was experimenting with all these hypnosis style technique of projecting your body and relaxing and at one of these sessions in California where else he ran into this woman who was telling him I have a friend Bud Hopkins and he's interviewing all these people who were abducted by aliens and Mac thought it was a lot of nonsense and
But, again, one of the strange things that happened in life, he was in New York, and he decided to call up Bud Hopkins pretty much out of the blue after dismissing it. And Hopkins showed him – Bud had written these books about – uh, encounters, uh, very strange encounters that he, he, he was an artist. He, he was not a psychiatrist like Mac. He was an artist.
Uh, but he got interested in the subject because he had spotted a UFO in Cape Cod. So he started meeting these people and hypnotized, studied hypnosis, you know, put them in a relaxed state and heard their stories. And then he meets John Mac and he said, gee, John, you're the psychiatrist. You know, what do you make of this?
So he gave John a bunch of letters from these people who were responding to Bud's books about, you know, abductions. And John was totally intrigued. And he had the courage, as I said, to pursue it. You know, he could have said, look, this is going to kill me at Harvard. I mean, but he got interested. He collected his own group of people with these stories.
Again, ordinary people, men, women, children, in some cases, two year olds who, you know, said, little man, take me up in the sky. You know, I mean, little kids don't make up, you know, detailed stories like that. Anyway, he was intrigued as a psychiatrist who, by the way, he was no naive pushover for these stories. He had investigated and written a book on nightmares.
He had studied all kinds of aberrant states of adults and children. So, you know, he was not, you know, some rube who, you know, came across this information and decided to, you know, get good publicity for himself and jump into it. On the contrary, he was reluctant. But the stories would not let him go. And so that was the beginning. And then he started, you know, he got his own group together.
And again, he was not ashamed to tell Harvard pretty soon after he started collecting these stories what was going on. And, of course, that got him into a lot of trouble at Harvard. We can talk about that. But he had the courage of his convictions, and he jumped into it. And, by the way, this... phenomenon remains a mystery. He never solved it. We have not solved it.
We don't know any more than he did. Just that ordinary people tell very convincing stories with a little bit fragmentary evidence to back it up. Not much, a little. of encounters with other intelligence. So that was the course I followed in this book. I thought that he was very courageous, and he left a wonderful record of his research, which helped me in writing the book.
I did. I mean, he wasn't, again, what made him interesting, he was not a perfect person. He cheated on his wife. He was naive at times. But all in all, he was, you know, the model for the, you know, the... human being who goes out on a search, the questing human being that Joseph Campbell wrote about. And I thought he was really remarkable in that way. But he was not a saint.
And that's what made him even more interesting. He struggled with kind of a sex addiction. He alienated his wife, who was a wonderful supporter. But he was not dishonest. I mean, he was pretty open about his attraction to other women. So that added to his allure for me. He was a fully rounded human being.
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