Lucy Biggers

which is crazy because I worked at this really left-wing place.

And so she was a name that would regularly get tossed onto Slack and then they would like drag her.

So it's just like, that's where I was coming from, which is pretty crazy.

And so when I listened to Barry's podcast back in 2021, whenever that came out, or I guess it was 2022.

Whenever it came out, I listened to it and I'm like, wait a minute, she's not a fascist at all.

She's awesome.

And then I was like, actually, this is really great conversation.

This is really good content.

And that was a big awakening for me because I'm like, oh, I've been labeling this woman as this right-wing nut.

I'm listening to her podcast.

It's normal.

It's actually really good because all the content I'd been consuming when I was really on the left was so boring.

It was all the same shit.

you know, identity politics and boring stuff.

And so that was a huge, like, shift.

So, again, that one interaction was enough to, like, totally... But I was ready for it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I think...

you have to do counter-programming, right?

You have to show if they come home from school really upset about something and thinking America is the worst, you know, you have to say, listen, we have a complex history, but, you know, we also are responsible for X, Y, and Z, you know, and showing them the good parts of American history or also, like, showing them other countries that are so awful.