Lulu Garcia Navarro

If you like what you're hearing, follow or subscribe to The Interview wherever you get your podcasts. To read or listen to any of our conversations, you can always go to nytimes.com slash theinterview. And you can email us anytime at theinterview at nytimes.com.

If you like what you're hearing, follow or subscribe to The Interview wherever you get your podcasts. To read or listen to any of our conversations, you can always go to nytimes.com slash theinterview. And you can email us anytime at theinterview at nytimes.com.

Next week, David talks to Dr. Lindsay Gibson, author of the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents, which has gone viral on social media.

Next week, David talks to Dr. Lindsay Gibson, author of the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents, which has gone viral on social media.

I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro, and this is The Interview from The New York Times.

I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro, and this is The Interview from The New York Times.

From The New York Times, this is The Interview. I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro. Last weekend, governors from both parties converged in Washington for their annual gathering. As is traditional, they met with the president as a group.

From The New York Times, this is The Interview. I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro. Last weekend, governors from both parties converged in Washington for their annual gathering. As is traditional, they met with the president as a group.

As is not so traditional, President Trump took the opportunity to scold Maine's Democratic governor, Janet Mills, over her opposition to his executive order banning transgender women from women's sports.

As is not so traditional, President Trump took the opportunity to scold Maine's Democratic governor, Janet Mills, over her opposition to his executive order banning transgender women from women's sports.

That interaction is one example of the increasingly antagonistic relationship between the president and Democratic governors. This time around, Trump is adopting a more punitive posture towards those he perceives as defying him. And liberal governors now have to decide how to respond. Among them, Maura Healey of Massachusetts.

That interaction is one example of the increasingly antagonistic relationship between the president and Democratic governors. This time around, Trump is adopting a more punitive posture towards those he perceives as defying him. And liberal governors now have to decide how to respond. Among them, Maura Healey of Massachusetts.

Keeley is a former civil rights lawyer who, in 2014, became the nation's first openly gay state attorney general. In 2022, she won the governorship. And while she may not have the same national profile as some of her colleagues, like J.B. Pritzker of Illinois or Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, she's known as being deeply influential in the party behind closed doors.

Keeley is a former civil rights lawyer who, in 2014, became the nation's first openly gay state attorney general. In 2022, she won the governorship. And while she may not have the same national profile as some of her colleagues, like J.B. Pritzker of Illinois or Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, she's known as being deeply influential in the party behind closed doors.

So as part of a series of conversations I'm having with Democrats, I wanted to talk to Healy about how she views her role as the governor of a blue state in this second Trump term and how she thinks her party can wage an effective fight. Here's my conversation with Massachusetts Governor Maura Healy. Governor Healy, you just returned from D.C.

So as part of a series of conversations I'm having with Democrats, I wanted to talk to Healy about how she views her role as the governor of a blue state in this second Trump term and how she thinks her party can wage an effective fight. Here's my conversation with Massachusetts Governor Maura Healy. Governor Healy, you just returned from D.C.

for the annual National Governors Association meeting. And you attended an event with the president along with other governors. What did you discuss with the other governors, both Democratic and Republican, while you were there?

for the annual National Governors Association meeting. And you attended an event with the president along with other governors. What did you discuss with the other governors, both Democratic and Republican, while you were there?

And we should say this was about transgender rights and about his executive order to do with transgender rights. And then he called her out. Right. And then she responded immediately. basically, that she would follow the laws of her state and the federal government and the federal government and that she would see him in court. And that didn't seem to go down well.

And we should say this was about transgender rights and about his executive order to do with transgender rights. And then he called her out. Right. And then she responded immediately. basically, that she would follow the laws of her state and the federal government and the federal government and that she would see him in court. And that didn't seem to go down well.