Lulu Garcia Navarro

For me, the turning point came at the start of the pandemic, when my sister died of liver failure brought on by alcoholism, something I shared with Dr. Lemke before our interview. It made me take a hard look at my life. After a lifetime of obesity, I ended up taking Ozempic, which curtailed my obsessive relationship with food. Then two years ago, I stopped drinking alcohol.

For me, the turning point came at the start of the pandemic, when my sister died of liver failure brought on by alcoholism, something I shared with Dr. Lemke before our interview. It made me take a hard look at my life. After a lifetime of obesity, I ended up taking Ozempic, which curtailed my obsessive relationship with food. Then two years ago, I stopped drinking alcohol.

You published your book, Dopamine Nation, in 2021 with the thesis that the overabundance of modern culture has us constantly stimulated by dopamine. And that's only accelerated since your book was published. And I'm just wondering, broadly, does it feel like a whole new world for your research has opened up just since you've written your last book?

You published your book, Dopamine Nation, in 2021 with the thesis that the overabundance of modern culture has us constantly stimulated by dopamine. And that's only accelerated since your book was published. And I'm just wondering, broadly, does it feel like a whole new world for your research has opened up just since you've written your last book?

You work in Stanford's Addiction Medicine Dual Diagnosis Clinic, which is a bit of a mouthful, but essentially you see patients, right, about addiction. Yes. So generally speaking, have you seen things in your practice that weren't there before that you're seeing now since the pandemic? Yes.

You work in Stanford's Addiction Medicine Dual Diagnosis Clinic, which is a bit of a mouthful, but essentially you see patients, right, about addiction. Yes. So generally speaking, have you seen things in your practice that weren't there before that you're seeing now since the pandemic? Yes.

This is like a timeline of like our culture that that is very, very and I'm going to use the word sobering because it is very sobering. Yeah. Yeah. I do want to sort of establish some of the basics of your work and some of the language that you've already used so we can understand what it means. How do you define addiction?

This is like a timeline of like our culture that that is very, very and I'm going to use the word sobering because it is very sobering. Yeah. Yeah. I do want to sort of establish some of the basics of your work and some of the language that you've already used so we can understand what it means. How do you define addiction?

Is there a difference between addictive behaviors and being an addict?

Is there a difference between addictive behaviors and being an addict?

And I'll tell you why I asked this. Because my understanding has always been that addicts cannot control their compulsion. And then addictive behaviors are more habits that can be moderated or controlled. But I think what I'm hearing from you suggests that that's not the right way to think about it.

And I'll tell you why I asked this. Because my understanding has always been that addicts cannot control their compulsion. And then addictive behaviors are more habits that can be moderated or controlled. But I think what I'm hearing from you suggests that that's not the right way to think about it.

And when you're saying it's like a judgment call, is that a judgment that one makes oneself or is that a judgment that someone like you would make if I went to go see you?

And when you're saying it's like a judgment call, is that a judgment that one makes oneself or is that a judgment that someone like you would make if I went to go see you?

So, you know, we've become extremely attached to our phones. And phones do seem to be like the gateway to a lot of these new addictive behaviors. Online sports betting has exploded. Pornography use, as you mentioned, is up, even as actual sex is down. I mean, I was reading a study that said in 2024, Gen Z spent six to seven hours a day scrolling on average.

So, you know, we've become extremely attached to our phones. And phones do seem to be like the gateway to a lot of these new addictive behaviors. Online sports betting has exploded. Pornography use, as you mentioned, is up, even as actual sex is down. I mean, I was reading a study that said in 2024, Gen Z spent six to seven hours a day scrolling on average.

So I guess it seems like it's more a systemic problem than an individual problem.

So I guess it seems like it's more a systemic problem than an individual problem.

You've called this the plenty paradox, right? Which is the more we have, the worse off we are because we're being bombarded all the time with dopamine producing things and that makes us actually feel worse.

You've called this the plenty paradox, right? Which is the more we have, the worse off we are because we're being bombarded all the time with dopamine producing things and that makes us actually feel worse.