Matt Clifford

We are just- Have to do what?

We have to allow this to happen.

I think there is a point of view that actually the choice runs counter to all our incentives.

You've already brought one of the arguments that she's like, if we don't do it, someone else will do it.

That's true both within countries, between competitors, and it's true across countries.

Imagine that we self-deny the right to build nuclear power plants that build other nuclear power plants that spit on nuclear bombs.

China will do that.

Russia will do that.

And so there is this sense of like...

I'm really interested in like, where is that choice?

Now, I actually think that we are not star incentives and that virtue is a thing and we can make choices.

But what do you say to people that say, it sounds like you're describing something where actually there is no choice.

We have to do this.

But you're saying essentially that we have to figure out that coordination, both within the industry and maybe more importantly, and to Rory's previous skepticism, more challengingly with China.

And I think I'll get it wrong.

I think you said you thought there was a 60% chance by the end of 2028.

Yeah.

So we're talking, you know, two and a half years to coordinate, you know, the within industry thing is quite challenging.

But with China on not only that we do this, but how we do it.

But it takes two to tango.