Mouin Rabbani
speaker
309 appearances
1 recordings
1 series
first heard Mar 2024
last heard Mar 2024
Mouin Rabbani’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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Appearances
Israel has categorically rejected any international investigation, of course, fully supported by the United States. And I think what is required is to have credible investigations of these things, because I don't think you're going to convince me. I don't think I'm going to convince you. And This is two people sitting across the table from each other.
If I understood your question correctly.
No, but let me explain why that's a difficult question to answer. The total number of civilians killed was 800, 850. We know that Hamas is responsible probably for the majority of those killings. We also know that there were killings by Islamic Jihad.
Do you know why the number went down? The number went down because the Israeli authorities were in possession of 200 corpses that were burned to a crisp that they assumed were Israelis who had been killed on October 7th. They later determined that these were in fact Palestinian fighters. Now, how does a Palestinian fighter get burned to a crisp?
And the reason is that a proportion of Israeli civilians killed on October 7th. I don't believe it was a majority. We don't know how many. Some were killed in crossfire. Some were killed by Israeli shell fire, helicopter fire, and so on. And the majority were killed by Palestinians. And of that majority, we don't know.
I mean, again, I understood your question is referring specifically to Hamas, which is why I tried to answer it that way. But if you meant generically Palestinians, yes. If you mean specifically Hamas, we don't have a clear breakdown of how many were- No, I don't mean specifically Hamas.
Well, Palestinians have the right to resistance. That right includes the right to armed resistance. At the same time, armed resistance is subject to the laws of war, and there are very clear regulations. that separate legitimate acts of armed resistance from acts of armed resistance that are not legitimate.
There's been almost exclusive focus on the attacks on civilian population centers and the killings of civilians on October 7th. What is much more much less discussed to the point of amnesia is that there were very extensive attacks on Israeli military and intelligence facilities on October 7th. I would make a very clear distinction between those two.
And secondly, I'm not sure that I would characterize the efforts by Palestinians on October 7th to seize Israeli territory and Israeli population centers as in and of themselves illegitimate.
No, no, that's not what I said.
I think what you had on October 7th was an effort by Hamas to seize Israeli territory and population centers. And kill civilians. That's not what I said.
What I said is I think I would not describe the effort to seize Israeli territory as in and of itself illegitimate, as a separate issue from the killing of Israeli civilians where in those cases where they had been deliberately targeted, that's very clearly illegitimate.
Again, I'm making a distinction here.
Well, I don't do selective condemnation.
You know what the issue is? I've been speaking in public now, I would say since the late 1980s and interviewed and so on. I have never on one occasion ever been asked to condemn any Israeli act. When I've been in group discussions, those supporting the Israeli action or perspective, I have never encountered an example where these individuals are asked to condemn what Israel is doing.
The demand and obligation of condemnation is exclusively applied And my personal experience over decades is exclusively applied to Palestinians.
Like taking land back. No, the point I was making was, what was Hamas trying to achieve militarily on October 7th? And I was pointing out that the focus has been very much on Hamas attacks on civilians and atrocities and so on. And I'm not saying those things should be ignored.
What I'm saying is that what's getting lost in the shuffle is that there were extensive attacks on military and intelligence facilities. And as far as the other aspects are concerned, because I think either you or Lex asked me about the legitimacy of these attacks, I said I'm unclear whether
efforts by Hamas to seize Israeli population centers in and of themselves are illegitimate as opposed to actions that either deliberately targeted Israeli civilians or actions that should reasonably have been expected to result in the killings of Israeli civilians. Those strike me as by definition illegitimate. And I want to be very clear about that. I have- Illegitimate means you condemn them.
Illegitimate means they are not legitimate. I have a problem- Condemning your side, yes. No, not condemning my side. I have a problem with selective outrage, and I have a problem with selective condemnation. And as I explained to you a few minutes ago- In my decades of appearing in public and being interviewed, I have never been asked to condemn an Israeli action.
Showing 121–140 of 309 · page 7 of 16
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