Nicola Tallent

And then sitting back and watching something on the news.

But funny, on the glamorizing thing, that really came up so much during...

when everybody was watching Love Hate.

Yeah.

If you remember that.

And I remember just looking at it going, I cannot see the glamour here.

I actually thought that was really well written.

It brought in all those elements that are not glamorous.

you know, the rape, the mental health problems, the addiction issues, the violence, the treatment of women.

I thought it was very well rounded maybe is the description.

Of course, Nige and your woman living in this fancy house and they're going on holidays and stuff.

But that aside, the rest of it was pretty raw.

And I think showing the full picture

But you talk about individuals and that's, I think, really what is the draw if you really want to get interested in the bigger picture.

an individual will draw you in.

Of course.

Be that a criminal and somebody with a personality or with something, the je ne sais quoi, that makes them stand out from others.

But you have exactly the same with the flip side of that, which is a victim.

Yes.

There are times that we need to be able to engage and identify with a victim in order to feel empathy for people who are suffering from the results of criminal activity.