Norman Finkelstein
speaker
305 appearances
1 recordings
1 series
first heard Mar 2024
last heard Mar 2024
Norman Finkelstein’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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Appearances
There's a limit. When 90% of Israelis think that Israel is using enough or too little force in Gaza, I don't want to get inside that head. 40% think that Israel is using insufficient force in Gaza. I don't want to get inside that head. I don't want to get inside the head of people who think They're using insufficient force against the population, against the population, half of which is children.
I don't want to get inside that head. But here is the point, because your partner wants to know the point. You don't understand political constraints. One of your ministers said, let's drop an atomic bomb on Gaza. You think he really meant that? No, no, no.
I'm not supporting him. He's an idiot. This minister is a messianic idiot. He didn't say drop an atomic bomb. None other than Israel's chief historian. The famed, justifiably famed, Benny Morris thinks we should be dropping nuclear weapons on Iran.
I would say Iranian leaders have sent mixed messages.
It's complicated. To the extent that the Houthis are trying to stop the genocide in Gaza. There is no genocide. There is no genocide. They have the right to attack civilian ships.
It's committing genocide. But if I could just... Allow me... That's correct. I don't run away. So Norman, you did say Israel is committing genocide.
Which is the PLO line. Yeah, with the program. The PLO is long past. As you were saying, genocide is not a body count.
According to Asa Kasher, the philosopher of IDF, he said that Netanyahu was avowing genocide. Now, he's an idiot? He didn't say he's an idiot, but he passed it.
They must be awfully incompetent.
Even the American judge, she must have been awful incompetent if she was unable to see the misrepresentations that Mr. Bunnell, based on his Wikipedia entry, was able to find.
Actually, brace yourself for this, and Muin could confirm it. Yaniv Kogan, an Israeli, and Jamie Sternweiner, half Israeli, they checked every single quote in the Hebrew original, and Yaniv Kogan, love the guy, he has terrifying powers of concentration, he checked every single quote. Is that correct, Muin? And Jamie checked every single quote in the English
in the context, and where there were any contextual questions, they told us.
Yeah, I think they found one. So I do not believe that those 15 judges, it was 15 to two. 16 to two, I think. They're 15 in the court plus two, so it's 17, so it's 15 to two. I don't think those 15 judges were incompetent And I certainly don't believe the president of the court, an American, would allow herself to be duped. Because you might recall, Mr. Burrell, Mr. Burrell. All right.
Okay. It is correct, as Muin put it, that it'll be several years before the court makes a determination. And my guess is it will determine there was no genocide. That's my guess. Yes, no, I'm just giving you my guess. I can't predict. I got it all wrong, actually, as Muin will attest. I got it all wrong the first time. I never thought the American judge would vote in favor of plausibility.
So you admit that you were wrong? Yeah, of course. I think I tell Muin twice a day I was wrong about this and I was wrong about that. I'm not wrong about the facts, I try not to be, but my speculations, they can be wrong. Okay, leaving that aside. First of all, as Muin pointed out, there's a difference between the legal decision by the ruling and an independent judgment.
Now, South Africa was not filing a frivolous case. That was 84 pages. It was single. Even 84 pages can be pretty frivolous. It takes an hour and a half to read.
It was single spaced and had literally hundreds of footnotes. It can still be frivolous. It's possible. Of course, but this one wasn't. Yeah, I read the report. To tell you the truth, I followed very closely everything that's been happening to October 7th. I was mesmerized. I couldn't believe the comprehensiveness of that particular report.
Number two, there were two quite respected experts of international law sitting on the South African panel, John Dugard and Vaughan Lowe. Vaughan Lowe, as you might know, he argued the Wall case in 2004 before the International Court of Justice. Now, they were not
They were alleging genocide, which in their view means the evidence in their minds, we're not yet at the court, the evidence in their minds compels the conclusion that genocide is being committed. I am willing, because I happen to know Mr. Dugard personally and I've corresponded with Vaughn Lowe, I've heard their claim, I've read the report, I would say they make a very strong case.
But let's agree, plausible. Now, here's a question. If somebody qualifies for an Olympic team, let's say a regional person qualifies for an Olympic team, it doesn't mean they're going to be on the Olympic team. It doesn't mean they're going to win a gold medal, a silver medal, or a bronze medal. But they can swim.
Showing 161–180 of 305 · page 9 of 16
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