Richard Reeves

So every year that goes past, it feels like the controversy quotient goes down a bit.

And the more politicians and policymakers are talking about this in a positive way, then the more heat will come out of it.

And also I'll risk saying this, that if you've got these mainstream politicians, left and right, just engaging with this in a positive way, not in a culture worry way, but just doing something about it.

I think that takes the wind out of the sails of the reactionaries because they can no longer say that we're not doing anything.

We can give them a whole long laundry list of things that we're doing.

We're saying, you're talking about boys and men.

We're actually doing stuff for them.

Where's your policy agenda?

You're good on podcasts, but where's your policy list?

We've actually done a bunch of stuff for boys and men.

Sorry, what have you done?

That's the winning combination, I think.

I think we have to improve the cultural conversation about this, but I think we have to do it quite carefully and quite slowly.

Let's not play that culture war game in quite the same way.

I think what we need is a healthier role models and conversations, etc.

I think it matters when you have a governor like Gavin Newsom, who is no conservative.

standing up and saying, I want 10,000 more men into service, right?

The male service challenge.

We need our men.

And saying, we were wrong about this.