Rohin Shah

speaker

1,071 appearances 1 recordings 1 series first heard Jun 2026 last heard 2 Jun

Rohin Shah’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.

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Recordings per month over the last 12 months — 1 in all, peaking in Jun 2026 with 1.

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80,000 Hours Podcast · #245 – Rohin Shah on what it's really like to run AGI safety at Google DeepMind (and where I disagree with 'doomers') · 2 Jun 2026 podcast

They're like, is this actually a good idea?

Are we actually ready to continue doing this into the future?

And so I find it easier to trust the words that Google says relative to other companies.

Things that I would recommend are stuff like third-party audits or third-party evaluators that get a reasonable amount of access to the company and can use that to audit the practices and release some probably somewhat redacted report of what their findings are.

I think the main thing that drives my thinking here is...

is something that I would call attention to detail.

Generally, I tend to think that AI is a space that requires quite a lot of nuance, and you actually need to know a lot of facts on the ground in order to choose the right actions or the right things to be evaluating and checking.

And as a result, I care most about having a few people who are spending a lot of time looking in great detail and then writing up their results or somehow communicating their results or using that to make some sort of action.

which is why I would say third-party evaluations seem like one of the best things to me because you can build up these organizations that build a lot of context, spend a lot of time defining their evaluations, gain a bunch of information about how everything is working, and then can make fairly nuanced decisions about it while not being subject to the same biases that people in companies are going to be subject to.

And so that's, I think, the avenue that I'm most excited about.

Whether it's doable in today's political climate, less obvious.

So maybe as a in lieu of like,

In lieu of that, what you could do that might someday get to move in that direction is more like safety scorecards.

So I think AI LabWatch is my favorite scorecard in this area.

I wish we were doing more things like that.

If I had to make a career change right now and do something else, that would be one of my top two choices about what to do.

Yeah, it's not totally clear to me that it's serving a useful function yet, but I think it could be.

Maybe I should say a little bit about what it is.

It's a scorecard that evaluates companies based on essentially how good they are at safety for existential risks, or at least severe catastrophic risks.

It's run by one guy, Zach Stein Perlman, and I think he's not even putting all of his time into it.

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