Rohin Shah

speaker

1,071 appearances 1 recordings 1 series first heard Jun 2026 last heard 2 Jun

Rohin Shah’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.

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Recordings per month over the last 12 months — 1 in all, peaking in Jun 2026 with 1.

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80,000 Hours Podcast · #245 – Rohin Shah on what it's really like to run AGI safety at Google DeepMind (and where I disagree with 'doomers') · 2 Jun 2026 podcast

Maybe it's like half of his time.

I think Zach Stein Perlman has incredible attention to detail.

He's diving into these extremely detailed governance docs, reading through all of them, pulling out individual sentences that allow him to come to conclusions.

reading through all of the model cards and frontier safety reports and seeing exactly what the companies did and didn't do.

And so I think that's part of it.

I think there's a good amount of nuance and I actually believe the conclusions.

Well, I believe at least some of the conclusions that he comes to, which is usually not true of other scorecards.

I think if the scorecard got to the point where it was more robust, more accepted by the broader community, and especially accepted by the companies as a fairly legitimate scorecard, then you could imagine a race to the top on safety where you're like, let us climb the AI LabWatch scorecard and be able to advertise ourselves as the safest company or something along those lines.

And so I think that's one way in which you could have external actors trying to get the companies to be more safe in today's political climate.

Yeah, I think those are better.

I would still say that they don't always make sense.

So to take an example you just brought up, providing access to information.

I think it's just very easy for me to imagine this written in a way that backfires.

So for example, we do evaluations in the CBRN domain, that's chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear.

basically about whether AI systems can help with developing weapons of mass destruction.

A lot of the information here is quite info-hazardous, and I think it is probably the case that many external evaluators will not have the same level of information security that at least Google does.

And so I could imagine that thinking that that was actually a bad commitment to have made.

And then I think another version is like, you know, we talk about race dynamics quite a lot.

And so one thing that actually I'm fairly uncertain about, but you could imagine that it's actually a pretty high priority for companies to keep their

algorithmic progress and similar things locked up and, you know, not allow that to diffuse too far.

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