Sebastian Junger

And he held it off a long time.

He had a family, two little girls, and he was like— He killed himself while his girls were young?

And, you know, of course it's hard not to say, John, what the fuck?

Right?

Like, are you kidding?

Yeah.

But then I realized, no, no, no, that just shows how much pain he was in.

They can't take it, and they're worried what they're going to do with that pain.

Are they a threat to their family?

Can they trust themselves?

I think they start to worry about that.

There's an amazing story, not that I know that this was where John was at, but it could have been.

There's an amazing story from the Iliad and the Odyssey of Ajax, Iax, who threw himself on his sword, right?

And the...

The conventional understanding is that he was dishonored by Agamemnon in some way that I can't remember.

And he couldn't – after the trauma of combat and the siege of Troy and he lost his best friend, et cetera, et cetera, he couldn't stand the dishonor.

He had PTSD, right, in sort of contemporary terms.

And he threw himself on his sword.

And I sort of looked into the story a little bit because it didn't quite – I was like, wow, that's a lot of honor, right?

I mean that's like – he had a family.