Stan Van Gundy

I mean, you watch him in pick and roll defense, people going at him.

That's not going to go, and you're certainly not going at him

one-on-one.

He's smart.

His communication is excellent.

I don't think he's an all-defense guy.

I really don't.

And as I was just going to say, I think I would put him on the same level defensively as I would put Shea on.

I think Shea is good.

I think Shea's good off the ball.

Shea never has to guard a high-level score, not because I'm not even saying he couldn't, but they've got Lou Dort, they've got Cason Wallace, they've got Jalen Williams.

He's just never in that matchup.

I'd put him on the same level.

I think it's super close.

I just think that what Jokic has done, first of all, to lead the league in rebounding and assists,

both by healthy margins, is, it's ridiculous.

Those are two, like, he averages, what, four more assists a game or three more assists a game than Shea, who's a point guard?

Like, this is insane.

I think Jokic, to me, and it is, it's a very thin difference between

Jokic, to me, as the guy who lifts his teammates a little bit more, is the one.