Vince Hurley

What about situations when the person you're trying to connect with is not really there, either due to some mental illness, psychotic episode or to some kind of substance abuse?

Were you brought in to deal with those kinds of situations?

And if so, how do you deal with that situation?

And so how do you then form some kind of bond of commonality with someone who's not in their right mind?

A loud hailer or something like that.

A loud hailer.

Oh, God, that's so subtle.

That's fascinating.

So you don't say you're fantasising, this isn't real.

No, no.

But you also don't go, yes, he is the devil, but you've got to, I don't know, you've got to bust a catch or something.

So you don't either fully reject or fully enter into his mind.

line of thinking.

Well, it's weakness in the argument, like you say.

So what you're saying is this person in question in these situations, and this specific one as well, with their own kind of distorted way of thinking, there is a causal chain, like this is true, therefore this must be true, therefore I must do this.

And you're looking for something in that chain of thought that's weak in his mind.

How are you doing that in this incredibly dangerous and fraught situation?

You know, that's the kind of thing, like, if I'm watching that on TV, I might go, oh, you know, I might be able to go.

Yes, maybe you can try that approach, but you're right in the middle of this and you're doing that thing that is in the police dramas, on the street, on the line, doing all that.

How are you keeping your presence of mind in that situation?