Show notes
Summary: In this inaugural episode of "Cults and the Culting of America," hosts Daniella Mestyanek Young and Scott Loyd introduce the podcast, discussing their experiences with high-control groups and how these experiences shape their understanding of cult-like behaviors in various organizations. Daniella, a scholar of cults and author of the memoir "Uncultured," shares her journey from growing up in the notorious Children of God cult to serving in the U.S. Army. Scott, who grew up in a small Pentecostal cult, provides insights into his own deconstruction journey. The hosts dive into the definition of a cult, emphasizing the importance of a spectrum of severity rather than a binary "cult or not" perspective. Daniella presents her ten characteristics of cults, developed from her background in organizational psychology. These include having a charismatic leader, a distinctive worldview, a transcendent mission, continuous self-sacrifice, isolation, a unique vernacular, us-versus-them mentality, exploitation of labor, entrance and exit costs, and an ends-justify-the-means approach. Throughout the episode, Daniella and Scott discuss how these characteristics manifest not only in traditional cults but also in other high-control environments like the military. They explore the commonalities between cult indoctrination and military training, highlighting how tactics of coercive control can be found across different settings. Daniella also shares her perspective on the problematic nature of labeling groups as cults and the importance of recognizing patterns of coercive control to better understand and navigate these environments. The episode sets the stage for future discussions, promising to unpack each of the ten characteristics in greater detail and bring in guests to share their experiences with various high-control groups. Listeners are encouraged to read Daniella's book "Uncultured" and follow her on social media for more insights into cult dynamics and recovery. Links: Connect with Daniella Mestyanek Young on Social Media Patreon - Group Behavior Gal TikTok - Group Behavior Gal Instagram - Group Behavior Gal YouTube - Knitting Cult Lady Connect with Scot Loyd's Social Media and Blog · TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@thescotloyd · · Blog - ScottLoyd.blog · · Twitter - ScottLoyd1T1L · · Instagram - ScottLoyd1T1L Daniella Mestyanek Young's book: From Bookshop.org A Signed Copy of Uncultured: Combatting Cult Mind Control, by Dr. Steven Hassan Bounded Choice by Dr. Janja Lalich Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari Dr. Janja Lalich's work and resources on cults and coercive control Shownotes: Welcome to "Cults and the Culting of America" podcast. I'm Scot Loyd, and I'm thrilled to be here with Daniella Mestyanek Young. Daniella is a scholar of cults, extreme groups, and extremely bad leadership, as she likes to say. She's also the author of "Uncultured." Daniella, how are you today? Daniella: I'm doing great, Scot. How about you? Scot: Fantastic. I'm good, thank you. I'm thrilled to get started with this podcast. Just as a way of introduction, your book "Uncultured" was a phenomenal help to me. I grew up in a small Pentecostal cult known as the United Pentecostal Church, and throughout our podcast, I'll be sharing some of my experiences. But your experiences in the Children of God, a child sex cult, and then in the United States Army, that is an amazing story that you detail for everyone in "Uncultured." Kudos on your work there. I encourage everyone right now, if you haven't read "Uncultured," go get the book. It is a phenomenal read, and it's also on audio for those who prefer listening. And that's the one that got on the New York Times list, right? Daniella: Absolutely, the audio version. I did it myself. Scot: Fantastic. For those who might not know your story, could you share a little about your experiences? I'm curious, especially since we've titled this episode "Patriot Pains: I Joined the Army and All I Got Was This Lousy Trauma." How did someone growing up in a child sex cult end up in the United States Army and find similarities between the two groups? Daniella: Let's dive right into it. The first thing I'll say is that, even though I use the term "sex cult," it's not like a brand of cult. It's just a media term. However, I do believe the Children of God was a sex cult because our primary beliefs revolved around sex. It was impossible to be in the Children of God without knowing about their sexual doctrines. But it's not a different kind of cult; cults are cults, and we will see these patterns in many groups throughout this show. I was born three generations into the Children of God to people well-established in the leadership. My grandmother donated a house to the leader, David Berg. My grandfather still runs the money. My father was also involved in running the finances, which is a whole story in "Uncultured." I grew up in the center of these leadership homes. The Children of God started in 1968 in California, like many other cults of that time. David Berg figured out that his unique value proposition would be taking evangelical control of sex, pouring a lot of Mormonism on top of it, and calling it free love. I call it forced polyamory. The Children of God is one of the best rebranding stories, other than the Mormons. In the 80s, it was a harem photo sex cult on the cover of Time Magazine, and in the 90s, we performed twice at the White House. I was kicked out at 15, and I never fit in. I spent six years between the cult and the Army alone, not fitting in, being manipulated, never finding community. During this time, I excelled academically, doing four years of high school in two years and graduating valedictorian from college. I got into a toxic marriage, another thing I talk about in "Uncultured," which we call a one-on-one cult. These one-on-one cults have many parallels with group cults. When I joined the Army, I was looking for community and someone to tell me exactly what to do. The Army seemed like a place where I could be a true believer because life outside was too confusing. Scot: Your experiences, as detailed in "Uncultured," have given you a unique understanding of cults, extreme groups, and extremely bad leadership. You're sharing this on TikTok and other platforms and working on a new book focusing on the broader ramifications of what you've learned. Daniella: Yes, I'm writing a book breaking down my 10 parts of what makes up a cult. I'll show these behaviors in a real cult, the US military, and other organizations. My perspective is that cults have specific tactics, techniques, and procedures that can be spotted in various groups. Scot: Share your 10 characteristics of a cult and briefly tell us about each. We'll unpack each of these in future episodes. Daniella: Sure. The 10 characteristics are: 1. Charismatic Leader: Every cult has a charismatic leader. 2. Worldview: The leader pulls you into their worldview under the sacred assumption. 3. Transcendent Mission: Cults promise something that can't be proven. 4. Continual Self-Sacrifice: Members are expected to constantly sacrifice for the group. 5. Isolation: Cults isolate members in various ways. 6. Distinguishable Vernacular: Cults have their own language. 7. Us vs. Them Mentality: Cults create an enemy to unite against. 8. Exploitation of Labor: Cults exploit members' labor. 9. Entrance Costs: Cults require significant initial investment, making it hard to leave. 10. Ends Justify the Means: Cults justify unethical behavior for their cause. Scot: Thank you for sharing, Daniella. This is a great introduction to what we'll be discussing in our podcast. For our listeners, be sure to follow Daniella on social media and pick up her book "Uncultured." You can find me on social media at ScottLoyd1T1L and on my blog at ScottLoyd.blog. Thank you for listening to "Cults and the Culting of America." We'll see you next time.