TPP 173: What is Pathological Demand Avoidance in Children? With Dr. Melissa Neff
episode
Full-Tilt Parenting: Strategies, Insights, and Connection for Parents Raising Neurodivergent Children
43 min
2 speakers
8 chapters
transcribed 12 hours ago
Transcript
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Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
What is Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) and how is it defined?
The tagline for PDA is Can't help Won't I can't help it. I won't do it. So If ODD is I I won't do it. PDA is I want to do it. But I I can't right now. I can't do it right now because the anxiety and the demand is so intense that I Can't have my freedom be impinged by your external demands.
Welcome to Tilt Parenting, a podcast featuring interviews and conversations aimed at inspiring, informing, and supporting parents raising differently wired kids. I'm your host, Debbie Rieber, and I'm back with new episodes of the show. I spent the past three weeks getting settled into our lovely little neighborhood in Brooklyn. I've been unpacking, purging, purging some more because we seriously downsized our living space, trying to figure out where the best bagels are, uh figuring out where to park our bikes, finding new running routes. So it's been a little chaotic. It's been a lot, but I am back and I am so ready to hit the ground. running. And on a little side note, I just wanted to share that today
The day this episode comes out is Asher's first day at school. If you're a longtime listener of the podcast, you know that I have been homeschooling him for the past six years. Um, so his last year in school was second grade, and he is now starting ninth grade. He's starting high school today at a school here in Brooklyn. It's really blowing my mind. So I'm hoping it's going really well for him. I hope back to school has been smooth and not too stressful or dramatic for everyone out there listening. And of course, today I'm also bringing a new topic to the show, and that topic is pathological demand avoidance or PDA. It's typically defined as a pervasive developmental disorder that falls under the autism spectrum.
So PDA is a label that seems to be much more frequently used in the United Kingdom. It's often defined as a complicated and often misunderstood condition where some people have a heightened anxiety response to demands being placed on them. And I should also note that, like oppositional defiance disorder, which Which we've talked about in a number of episodes. Is it a real thing? Is it a label that shouldn't exist? PDA isn't universally recognized as a diagnosis, and it is also a label that's rooted in controversy. It's something I see a lot about, and I see people talking about it on listservs and groups that I'm in. And so I've asked a friend of the podcast, Dr. Melissa Neff, to come on the show and talk with us about it.
Melissa is a licensed clinical psychologist and she specializes in the assessment of ADHD depression, anxiety, trauma, nonverbal learning disorder, and autism spectrum disorders. Melissa's been on the show a couple of times before talking about working with recently diagnosed adults and also talking about the assessment process for differently wired kids. If you want to listen to those episodes, you can find links on the show notes page for this one at tiltparenting.com slash session one seventy-three. So I will just say that I definitely had a different understanding and awareness about pathological demand avoidance before this conversation. And my hunch is that the way that Melissa talks about it is probably different from the ideas you have for what it is.
I'm grateful to share Melissa's insights, and I hope that this conversation generates more dialogue that ultimately can lead to deeper awareness of the experience. experiences of some of our kids so we can better support who they inherently are. Thank you so much, and now here is my conversation with Dr. Melissa Neff about pathological demand avoidance. Hey Melissa, welcome back to the podcast. Thanks, Debbie. So good to be back. You're at this point one of our most regular guests, so that's kind of cool. I love it. And uh well, you have so much to share and I'm super excited about today's conversation and we have a lot to cover, but because I know there are gonna be people listening to this episode who maybe haven't heard the other episodes that you've been on, would you just take a few minutes to just introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about what you do?
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) and how is it defined?
0:00–5:28
2
Why is PDA considered controversial and not a formal DSM diagnosis?
5:28–11:26
3
How does PDA differ from Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD)?
11:26–17:12
4
What do PDA‑related behaviors look like in children and how can parents recognize them?
17:12–22:53
5
How is school refusal linked to PDA and what early signs should teachers watch for?
22:53–27:23
6
What strategies and accommodations help children with PDA succeed at school?
27:23–33:33
7
How can parents support their PDA‑identified child at home and in daily life?
33:33–39:39
8
What resources and community support are available for families dealing with PDA?
39:39–43:39
Speakers
2 identifiedMore from Full-Tilt Parenting: Strategies, Insights, and Connection for Parents Raising Neurodivergent Children
TPP 266a: A Conversation with Poet and Advocate LeDerick Horne
TPP 522: A Whole Child Approach to ADHD with Phil Boucher, M.D.
TPP 091a: A Conversation With Steve Silberman About His Book “Neurotribes”
TPP 521: A Conversation with Dr. Peter Gray About Restoring Childhood
TPP 253a: Advocate and Author Jonathan Mooney on Why Normal Sucks
TPP 520: Dr. Özgür Bolat on Why Rewards Backfire and the Real Science of Motivating Kids