TPP 173a: What is Pathological Demand Avoidance in Children? With Dr. Melissa Neff
episode
Full-Tilt Parenting: Strategies, Insights, and Connection for Parents Raising Neurodivergent Children
44 min
1 speaker
4 chapters
transcribed 15 hours ago
Transcript
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Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
What is Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) and how is it defined?
Hey there, it's Debbie. Today's episode is a special re-release of a favorite conversation from the archives. Unless you're a longtime listener of the show, there's a good chance you haven't heard this one before. And even if you have, you just might get something completely different from it this time around.
The tagline for PDA is can't help won't. I can't help it. I won't do it. So If ODD is I won't do it, PDA is I want to do it, but I can't right now. I can't do it right now because the anxiety and the demand is so intense that I can't have my freedom being pinched by your external demands.
Welcome to Tilt Parenting, a podcast featuring interviews and conversations aimed at inspiring, informing and supporting parents raising differently wired kids. I'm your host, Debbie Reber, and I'm back with new episodes of the show. I spent the past three weeks getting settled into our lovely little neighborhood in Brooklyn, I've been unpacking, purging, purging some more because we seriously downsized our living space, trying to figure out where the best bagels are, figuring out where to park our bikes, finding new running routes. So it's been a little chaotic. It's been a lot, but I am back and I am so ready to hit the ground running. And on a little side note, I just wanted to share that today, the day this episode comes out, is Asher's first day at school.
If you're a longtime listener of the podcast, you know that I have been homeschooling him for the past six years. So his last year in school was second grade, and he is now starting ninth grade. He's starting high school today at a school here in Brooklyn. It's really blowing my mind. So I'm hoping it's going really well for him. I hope back to school has been smooth and not too stressful or dramatic for everyone out there listening. And of course, today, I'm also bringing a new topic to the show, and that topic is pathological demand avoidance, or PDA. It's typically defined as a pervasive developmental disorder that falls under the autism spectrum. So PDA is a label that seems to be much more frequently used in the United Kingdom.
It's often defined as a complicated and often misunderstood condition where some people have a heightened anxiety response to demands being placed on them. And I should also note that Like oppositional defiance disorder, which we've talked about in a number of episodes, is it a real thing? Is it a label that shouldn't exist? PDA isn't universally recognized as a diagnosis, and it is also a label that's rooted in controversy. It's something I see a lot about, and I see people talking about it on listservs and groups that I'm in. And so I've asked friend of the podcast, Dr. Melissa Neff, to come on the show and talk with us about it. Melissa is a licensed clinical psychologist, and she specializes in the assessment of ADHD, depression, anxiety, trauma, nonverbal learning disorder, and autism spectrum disorders.
Melissa has been on the show a couple of times before talking about working with recently diagnosed adults, and also talking about the assessment process for differently wired kids. If you want to listen to those episodes, you can find links on the show notes page for this one at tiltparenting.com slash session 173. So I will just say that I definitely had a different understanding and awareness about pathological demand avoidance before this conversation. And my hunch is that the way that Melissa talks about it is probably different from the ideas you have for what it is. I'm grateful to share Melissa's insights. And I hope that this conversation generates more dialogue that ultimately can lead to deeper awareness of the experiences of some of our kids so we can better support who they inherently are.
Thank you so much. And now here is my conversation with Dr. Melissa Neff about pathological demand avoidance. Hey, Melissa, welcome back to the podcast. Thanks, Debbie. So good to be back. You're at this point, one of our most regular guests. So that's kind of cool. I love it. And well, you have so much to share.
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Chapters
4 chapters
1
What is Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) and how is it defined?
0:00–15:04
2
How does PDA differ from Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD)?
15:04–25:28
3
What are the key characteristics and behaviors of children with PDA?
25:28–34:56
4
How is PDA diagnosed when it isn’t listed in the DSM?
34:56–44:01
Speakers
1 identifiedMore from Full-Tilt Parenting: Strategies, Insights, and Connection for Parents Raising Neurodivergent Children
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TPP 522: A Whole Child Approach to ADHD with Phil Boucher, M.D.
TPP 091a: A Conversation With Steve Silberman About His Book “Neurotribes”
TPP 521: A Conversation with Dr. Peter Gray About Restoring Childhood
TPP 253a: Advocate and Author Jonathan Mooney on Why Normal Sucks
TPP 520: Dr. Özgür Bolat on Why Rewards Backfire and the Real Science of Motivating Kids