Jim Chanos on the Nuttiness of 'Bitcoin Treasury Companies'
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What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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Hello there, Oddlots listeners. You are about to listen to a very special episode. This is a conversation recorded live at our recent event in New York.
That's right. We had a live Oddlots event on June 26th. We had tons of conversations. We're gonna be rolling them out in the uh days ahead. But the first one we want to bring you was our uh headliner for the night, uh Jim Chenos.
That's right. The famed short seller, he was there giving us all his thoughts on the market right now. So take a listen.
Alright, first question. Are Bitcoin treasury companies the stupidest thing you've ever seen in your entire life?
You know, it's rarely rarely that I have to increase my personal security after a podcast, which I had to do after your uh our last podcast together when I uh sent some intemperate things about Bitcoin treasury companies. Look. Look. Here's the thing. I I get people very agitated about this and and they get they they point out on just what a genius idea this is. And I keep trying to point out to them I'm doing the same thing that guys like Michael Saylor are doing. I'm on the same side of the trade. And I keep pointing out to my critics, you're on the opposite side of that trade. And You don't want to be on the opposite side of the trade. And the Bitcoin Treasury paradox being that you are the one buying the pieces of paper that have infinite supply so that Michael Saylor and I can buy the digital asset with the limited supply.
And it makes kind of no sense. So what will inevitably happen is happening, and that is there's nothing proprietary here. This is just simply raising capital to To buy a financial asset and other companies will do this. And in fact, even since the podcast we last did, I think the the number of companies that have announced this strategy is you know scores more. I think there's over a hundred in the US and over two hundred globally now.
So who's actually buying micro strategy? Because, you know, I thought
Everybody on my timeline. Okay.
But I thought once the spot ETFs, the spot bitcoin ETFs came out, like this business model would go away and it hasn't.
No, and i because it there's there's a wonderful sales job that's being done about the fact that this is an economic engine in and of itself. And so therefore th terms like Bitcoin yield are are used and and I've called them financial gibberish because they are. And and in fact, this will get arbed away ultimately by companies that will do this. uh to try to capture that spread. In the case of micro strategy, it's substantial. It's still Uh $50 billion, something like that, of the difference between the value of the enterprise value of the company and the value of their Bitcoin holdings. But the thing that really kind of shot me into orbit on all this was when uh Saylor and others then said, Well, no, you can't really value us on an NAV basis, the so-called MNAV multiple of NAV.
You actually have to also give us additional value. for the amount of profit that we make every quarter from the appreciation in the asset. Yeah, I said I I just pointed out. I said, well that's like saying, you know, my whole net worth is in a house that's worth four hundred thousand dollars that that that is now worth five hundred thousand dollars a year or two later, and my net worth is not five hundred thousand dollars now, it's two and a half million because it's the value of the house plus a multiple on the increase in the profitability of the asset.
When you put it that way it sounds a little absurd.
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Chapters
4 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:00–6:22
2
Why are investors buying shares of Bitcoin‑holding companies instead of buying Bitcoin directly?
6:22–12:40
3
Who is actually buying MicroStrategy stock and why does it keep soaring?
12:40–29:25
4
How is New York City real‑estate being affected by recent political changes?
29:25–33:13
Speakers
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