"TREACHEROUS Waters Ahead!" Will Super Intelligent Robots End Humanity? + Science vs God Debate
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What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
We have to understand we're doing science, right? Quite complex chemical systems can emerge seemingly from what we call the inorganic world and produce lifelike systems.
What we're talking about is the characteristics of life. What is life is probably something that is better answered by the Bible.
I just want to understand the chemistry of life and how sand turns into cells.
Every year it gets more and more complex as we realize what is going on.
I mean, there's no point in me being incredibly healthy because AI escapes and kills us.
Either way you look at it, there does seem to be a certain urgency. If there is something that actually could help with this, and I think superintelligence might be that thing.
I do think giving humanoid robots the ability to be able to serve the Department of War is a good thing.
Leaders of the top labs all suggest we want to pause, we want to slow down. We just need to make sure that other labs do the same.
Can science create life itself in a laboratory? If the answer is yes, it will call into question the basis of Christianity and indeed most other religions, as well as revolutionizing our understanding of science altogether.
Can lab-made DNA blobs really be called ‘life’?
A scientific discovery earlier this month claims to have brought us one step closer to that. Researchers made tiny blobs which use entirely lab-made DNA to feed, grow, and multiply in a dish. Well, my two guests for today's debate are both respected scientists who disagree fundamentally on whether it's possible at all. Dr. James Torr is professor of chemistry at Rice University, widely recognized for his groundbreaking research in nanotechnology. He's also a firm believer in God and committed Christian. And Professor Lee Cronin holds the Regius Chair of Chemistry at the University of Glasgow and one of the world's leading origin of life researchers. He's also an atheist. Well, gentlemen, welcome, and thank you for agreeing to debate each other on this.
Let me start by just giving each of you several minutes just to lay out your case, and then I'll bring you together to have a proper old debate. Dr. James Tor, how significant was this apparent discovery that you could create a form of life in a lab several weeks ago?
Well, I think it was a great engineering feat, and I commend the authors, but it certainly was not life. I don't think they ever claimed that it was life, and it's going to be interesting to see what happens when it goes through peer review. Generally, when things come out in the press before they get peer reviewed and get into the actual literature, it's really a problem because they change a lot. It didn't have cell division. One of the characteristics of life is you have to have cell dividing, and the way they divided it is they actually essentially cut it with a knife. In other words, they put it through a sieve, mechanical instrument and cut these little bubbles in half. And they said, there is cell division.
When they tried to do it chemically, they just surrounded the outside with very large things that would cause it to neck down and break. And it never did a repeated cycle, nor did they ever claim a yield out of that. They just said it was very low. And when somebody doesn't record a yield, it's usually embarrassingly low. So there was no reproduction. Yes, you know, just making a genome, it's just a matter of time and money. How much time are you going to put in there to build this DNA? But they took every component from life and everything else had to come from the outside. The cell didn't have the proper openings for things to get in. They had to use a technology that's made to open cells to kill them to actually get reagents to come in from the outside.
So the more that you... You say the cell can't do, you have to provide from the outside, but it certainly wasn't life, but it wasn't a great engineering feat. I think what's going to hurt them is coming out in the press before it was peer reviewed.
Okay. Now, you're a believer in God. I have had many debates with atheists, Richard Dawkins and others, about how life began.
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Chapters
5 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:01–1:10
2
Can lab-made DNA blobs really be called ‘life’?
1:10–10:42
3
What technical flaws does Dr James Tour highlight in the lab-life claims?
10:42–20:02
4
Could creating life in the lab challenge religious beliefs about God?
20:02–58:24
5
How does Professor Lee Cronin defend assembly theory and measuring ‘aliveness’?
58:24–1:04:29
Speakers
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