What Drives Political Violence in America
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What recent events have sparked concerns about political violence in America?
If you find yourself bewildered by this moment where there's so much reason for despair and so much reason to hope all at the same time, let me say I hear you. I'm Ezra Klein from New York Times Opinion, host of The Ezra Klein Show. And for me, the best way to beat back that bewildered feeling is to talk it out with the people who have ideas and frameworks for making sense of it. There is going to be plenty to talk about. You can find The Ezra Klein Show wherever you get your podcasts.
From The New York Times, I'm Natalie Kitro-Eff. This is The Daily. in the midst of a cascade of violent acts against political figures.
It happened in Minnesota, the murder of a state representative and her husband in what's being called a politically motivated attack. This morning, a man is charged in connection with an arson at the Pennsylvania governor's residence while Governor Shapiro and his family slept inside. Charlie Kirk has been shot. The latest from the White House Correspondents Center, the Secret Service has a person in custody after shots were fired.
And in the wake of what appears to be the third assassination attempt against President Trump.
The New York Times reports the suspected shooter's 1,000-word manifesto says Trump administration figures were his targets.
The question that keeps coming up is how do we get here?
What is the concept of violent populism and why is it a risk?
And how much worse could it really get? So last week, I called University of Chicago professor Robert Pape. For decades, he's been one of the country's leading experts on political violence, and he's advised every White House from 2001 to 2024. We talked about why violence from the right and the left is on the rise, and what it would take to stop it. It's Monday, May 4th. Professor Pape, we started thinking about doing a conversation like this after a series of what felt like extraordinary instances of political violence. The president's two assassination attempts and then Charlie Kirk's assassination. So we at The Daily have been talking to you in the background for some time now. And then there was another act of violence apparently directed at the Trump administration.
And so we thought now is the time. So thanks for being here.
Thank you very much for having me.
I want to start with this theory that you have, which is that we are in an age of what you call violent populism. This is something you have a book coming out on, and you say that this violent populism represents a bigger risk to American democracy than anything else. No terrorist group or foreign country comes close in your eyes.
How does social acceptance of political violence influence behavior?
So first of all, what is violent populism, and why is it such a risk?
The most important fact about political violence in America today is this. Tens of millions of Americans on both sides of the aisle see political violence as acceptable. And once you have tens of millions of Americans, not a fringe, not a few militia groups, who see violence as acceptable, this changes everything about the risks of attack. It makes the individuals who are volatile for their own psychosocial reasons, it pushes those volatile individuals over the edge. Because what they see is the prospect of social approval for their acts. And when you have tens of millions of Americans who support political violence, it makes tips to the FBI very, very difficult to get. Because the more support there is for political violence, the more people will simply look the other way.
They'll discount what they see. And this is what I mean by the era of violent populism, which is once we have tens of millions of Americans supporting political violence for their own causes, this can then create spirals. You can see it on the debate. Is this a mostly right-wing phenomenon, a left-wing phenomenon? Well, we have all the cases here, and the cases are, let me just go over the last 12 months. So we saw in June 2025, the assassination murder of a Democratic leader in Minnesota. You saw the assassination murder of Charlie Kirk a few months later.
What demographic changes are driving political violence today?
We also have Governor Shapiro in Pennsylvania. We, of course, have multiple President Trump assassination attempts.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What recent events have sparked concerns about political violence in America?
0:00–1:27
2
What is the concept of violent populism and why is it a risk?
1:27–2:55
3
How does social acceptance of political violence influence behavior?
2:55–4:45
4
What demographic changes are driving political violence today?
4:45–6:05
5
How does wealth inequality contribute to political violence?
6:05–7:11
6
What role do political leaders play in escalating or mitigating violence?
7:11–8:23
7
How does rhetoric from leaders impact public perception of violence?
8:23–9:46
8
What actions can the public take to oppose political violence?
9:46–39:41