Rethinking relationships with Esther Perel
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How does Esther Perel define a meaningful sexual encounter?
It's not enough to have just a bunch of body parts connect. You want something that allows you to leave and think, ha, I will remember that date. And maybe I'll even use it for fantasy 20 years from now, you know. But it has to have a story. Sex comes with a
plot. Hey, I'm Nat Tanchich, and I'm about to speak with someone who will totally change the way you think about love. She's been revealing the conflicts between our expectations and the reality of long-term relationships and sexuality through her therapy work with couples around the globe, her writing, and her unflinching podcast, Where Should We Begin?, which gives us a voyeuristic insight into the problems of lovers during her therapy sessions and some of their most vulnerable moments. Belgian psychotherapist Esther Perel has been turning our ideas of commitment, eroticism and fidelity on head for years. And she's in Australia right now as part of Vivid Live, urging us to rethink everything we've come to assume about relationships.
It's my absolute honor to have Esther Perel join me. Esther, welcome to The Hookup. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. I want to start by saying that, you know, with all of that being said, it seems to me that the dating world is just more complicated than it's ever been. You know, there's no one way of doing things anymore. There's no one way of having sex or being in a relationship. You can be serious or casual, monogamous or not, you know, so many ways of being that we've talked about on this show. Our expectations have been shaped, I think, as young people largely by pop culture, online trends and dating apps, but also whatever communities we kind of surround ourselves with. So if you're just starting to make your way in the world of dating and sex, you're new and you're young, how do you make sense of it all?
Through sheer
experience, through making lots of mistakes, through learning, through talking to others, through seeking advice, sources, resources. I actually think that there's a lot more possibilities, a lot more confusion, but also a lot more information than any of our grandparents ever had. Do you think there's a lot of bad information out there, though? I was asking today, what is the state of sexuality education in Australia? What do people learn and from whom? And what are the messages that they receive? Are people getting plumbing lessons? Are people getting lessons in sexuality that focus on the dangers and dysfunctions and diseases? Or are people getting education that speaks about pleasure and connection and respect and consent and basically takes all the principles of the WHO definition of what is sexual health and integrate it as part of overall relational health and overall
health in general. So I think that there is probably, not even probably, there is all kinds of information out there that isn't particularly useful. But you know, I remember sometimes I was in my early teens and I was trying to read a book and somebody said, that is too complicated for you right now. I think you should read this in a few years. There was someone who curated already back then and said, this may be more complicated than you can handle at this stage. I think that's what is important. It's not what's out there. It's who is helping you figure out if what is out there is the next thing you should be putting your hands on right now.
And so who do you think we turn to to help us work that out?
What’s wrong with today’s sexuality education and who should we trust?
Unfortunately, I think
that when it comes to sexuality at this point, people don't necessarily always find their way to the most progressive and well-informed sites. People go to the most available sites, and that's called porn. So porn is lots of information of all sorts, but not always the best sex education. And so we shouldn't confuse fantasy material with education. I think that schools need to do better. I think parents need to definitely do better. And I think that everybody has scrambled with this. This is not new, you know, where you find your teachers, your elderlies, your older brother, your, you know, that other person that is a few years ahead of you to whom you can go and just say, talk to me.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
How does Esther Perel define a meaningful sexual encounter?
0:00–3:55
2
What’s wrong with today’s sexuality education and who should we trust?
3:55–6:59
3
Why should every hookup have a story or “plot” behind it?
6:59–9:59
4
How can we avoid feeling disposable in a culture of casual sex?
9:59–12:23
5
What is driving the current “sex recession” and how does technology play a role?
12:23–15:22
6
Can the idea of a single soulmate coexist with polyamory and open relationships?
15:22–19:46
7
How do we reconcile the need for stability with the desire for novelty in relationships?
19:46–23:34
8
Do we have a right to good sex and what does sexual health really mean?
23:34–26:05