#2529 - Zach Bush
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What is the health debate about coffee and how does relationship to nature change its effects?
the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day I'll stick with the water for now. Never figured out how to do the coffee thing.
You never figured out coffee?
No. Really? Do tea things.
Well, tea's nice. Tea's probably better for you, I guess. But, man, it's so hard to know. Well, here, I'll ask you, because you're a health expert. How convenient. Because there's all this conflicting information about coffee. Like some people say coffee is really good for you. It's like an amazing antioxidant. And there's all these positive health benefits. And other people say, no, it dehydrates you. It's bad for you. It's too much caffeine. It's bad for you. What do you think?
I mean, I think this is one of the next advancements of humankind. We're going to stop demonizing anything nature's provided, and we're going to start looking at our relationship to it instead. And I think it's fundamentally your relationship to coffee that's going to determine whether it's a health benefit or detrimental to who you are. There's been so many fad diets, so many fad moments, and the science has never supported any of it. The science has always... Looking at the human system as if it's an isolated system then studies the impact of a chemical, caffeine or otherwise on it. You're not an isolated system. And so if coffee is part of a complex ecosystem of your microbiome, the soil systems of your body, then it's going to supercharge you into health.
But if coffee sits there as a drug that is bypassing the felt sense of being human, then you're probably undermining your potential to be alive fully and it's becoming a distraction to life.
Or you're doing your best to be a good office worker. Which is why it's the one drug they provide at work.
Exactly. If you're committed to machine-like behavior, it's your best asset.
And it's kind of interesting that caffeine is the one drug that is provided at most offices.
I would say that that's indirectly true. I think that the one drug that's most provided at offices is actually performance-based machine-like reward systems. Okay.
So human-ingrained drugs.
Yeah. The brain contains every neurochemical you'd want to control behavior. And so we've created office environments that reward machine-like behavior for 150 years. And so this is how we've ended up looking like we do as a humankind.
Yeah, very bizarre pattern that we found ourselves in that was created to make better office workers. So we've molded human behavior around office work. We've molded human behavior around the one thing that people really, for the most part, don't want to be doing, which is terrible.
I was blessed to sit by thousands of deathbeds. My third subspecialty in medicine was hospice. Sat by thousands of deathbeds and not a single person ever told me a day of their life in an office. And they just don't even remember it. It's terrible. Right. Consumed 40 hours a week of their life and it just is a – it can't compute. It doesn't integrate into your soul experience at the end of things.
Yeah. Even if you're making a ton of money, like at the end of the day, you're still locked up for eight hours a day doing something you probably don't want to do. You know?
We're getting into a big piece right here. Like this is really the secret of everything is when did humans become abstract? When did we stop being living systems?
Yeah.
So, do you think that that's just our ego, our delusions that allow us to think that we're not a system, that we're just, this is me, I'm Mike, I know what I'm doing. I'm just going to drink my coffee and go to work because that's what you do. You have a job, you get it done. And then there's like these narratives that get reinforced in the media. Like the guy who shows up for work every day doing a job that sucks, that guy's a hero, right? We love those guys.
That's it. That's it. And you're rewarded for it.
The guy that writes poetry and sits in his backyard, oh, fucking hippie. You know, that ne'er-do-well. Unless he sells a bunch of books. And then we're like, the guy was a genius.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the health debate about coffee and how does relationship to nature change its effects?
0:00–7:52
2
How did office culture and machine-like reward systems reshape human purpose?
7:52–22:31
3
Why does Zach call humanity in a 'hospice moment' and how can indigenous tribes teach us?
22:31–1:15:53
4
How have antibiotics, pesticides and chemical farming disrupted biosis and human health?
1:15:53–1:26:04
5
How does connection to nature protect communities from toxins and disease?
1:26:04–1:28:16
6
What do Chernobyl voles reveal about microbiomes and radiation resilience?
1:28:16–1:33:01
7
Could historical collapses (smallpox, Mayan decline) be driven by field effects and social disruption?
1:33:01–1:44:25
8
How is glyphosate linked to metabolic collapse, autism trends and a coming biological renaissance?
1:44:25–2:51:17