Ep. 63: Does My Child Have PDA?
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What is Pathological Demand Avoidance and why is it called Pervasive Drive for Autonomy?
What's up everyone and welcome to Making the Shift for Autistic Kids.
We're an SLP couple from California with four boys. And we're here every week to bring you neuroaffirming tips, tricks, and tools. Are you ready to make the shift?
Let's do this!
Hello everyone and welcome to Making the Shift. We have a very exciting guest today. We have Dr. Tay. She is a child psychologist. She specialized in early autism diagnosis and PDA. And we are so excited to have you on the show. Thank you so much
for having me. I'm excited to be here.
We'd like to know.
How did Dr. Tay become interested in autism and PDA and what shaped her career path?
So give us just a quick background on how you were interested in getting into this field with the dynamics of getting into so many fields. You specialized in this area.
Yeah, I actually always thought I was gonna go to medical school, like all through college too. That was still the plan. But I had a strong connection to autism because when I, so my brother and I are 10 years apart. Um, so when I was 12, he was 23 months of age, which this was over two decades ago. He's 24 now. Um, he was diagnosed with PDD NOS at the time. So autism. Um, in large part because my mom was this like fierce advocate for him, being like, you know, I know he needs the support. And so that I think always shaped me and it it became part of my world. And one of the things I think that, you know, became so important was the impact that it had on our family and like, you know, how how we centered around what my brother needs.
needed. And I thought that was so important. And I look back at that and I'm so glad, you know, we were able to come together as a family. But then I think the other side of it is sometimes it's hard navigating and there's not a lot of support for the whole family system around it. So initially um I was going to go to med school, then I found psychology was like, oh, this is great because I can start working with autistic kids right away. You know, I didn't have to wait many, many years. And I then thought I was gonna go into research and I actually did. I went into academia um after I graduated and then was really missing the connection and supporting families and decided to launch my own practice in June of 2022.
Amazing. And
you get to have this unique perspective as you growing up and this being such a such a center point in your family, you know, focal point for your family and getting to come in and work with families and be able to have that perspective is so Unique and awesome, valuable.
Yeah, absolutely. I think maybe back when you mentioned that your your brother had been diagnosed P D N OS. I think back in the day, maybe in the DSM five, we we wanted to have that conversation about Pervasive drive for autonomy. I'm wondering too in the DSM five if that was maybe an overlap. I think I read somewhere that it was. Uh oh
yeah. Interesting. I definitely don't think my brother has the PDA profile. So that it's interesting. Really fun little fact. Actually, it's not fun at all. But they used to, at least this is what they told my mom. They were like, well, here's what we're doing. We're going to diagnose him, PDD, NOS, and MR, mental retardation. And she was like, No, no, you're not, because he doesn't have MR. And it wasn't a lack of like acceptance and all of that. She's Like, give him all the flashcards. He'll match them all up right now. And they're like, no, but this is just what we do. And my mom was like, no, like I that that's just not accurate. So you're going to give the BDD NOS diagnosis. We're going to get the services that we need.
And you're not going to give the MR. And she's telling this to like a neurologist and they listened. So it's really interesting to think about. But I think that also shapes my work. So much of viewing parents as experts of their kids because they know deep down my mom was right, you know, and she just chose not to back down from that fight. Um, I know it takes a lot of guts and it's it's easier said than done though, sometimes to to push against kind of a system that doesn't always empower parents.
Yeah, exactly.
What are the main characteristics of the PDA profile and how does it differ from typical autism?
On that topic of of of PDA and you working um in in your practice, I kind of want to have that discussion of of you know the pathological demand avoidance.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is Pathological Demand Avoidance and why is it called Pervasive Drive for Autonomy?
0:08–0:54
2
How did Dr. Tay become interested in autism and PDA and what shaped her career path?
0:54–4:30
3
What are the main characteristics of the PDA profile and how does it differ from typical autism?
4:30–11:10
4
How can clinicians identify PDA in assessments and what should be included in diagnostic reports?
11:10–16:11
5
What is the difference between externalized and internalized PDA and how do gender patterns play a role?
16:11–20:53
6
What low‑demand parenting strategies help children with PDA regulate their anxiety?
20:53–24:43
7
How does Dr. Tay’s group‑therapy model work and what resources does she offer families?
24:43–27:34
8
Where can listeners find Dr. Tay’s practice, podcasts, and additional PDA resources?
27:34–28:04
Speakers
1 identifiedMore from The NeuroAffirm Podcast
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