Why Entrepreneurs Are Depressed (And No One Cares Until It’s Too Late)
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What leads to executive loneliness?
I became a very unhealthy person for the simple reason that I wasn't vulnerable. I didn't ask for help when I really needed it.
In a crude laboratory in the basement of his home,
This idea of executive loneliness as it relates to leadership, it's one of the things that It is very tough in my opinion to prepare for, even if people tell you that something or you hear a podcast like the one we're about to do, like it is a very tough emotion or feeling to deal with when you hit a leadership position and you start that loneliness starts to creep in.
How does isolation affect leadership?
So like one, why, what was your inspiration to address this particular topic? Cause I think it's one that's underserved and I love that you are. And two, like how do you start to get people out of that space?
Yeah, absolutely. So why did I then cover loneliness? First off, I found myself quite lonely and isolated in my career. If you asked me at the time, would I be lonely and isolated? My answer would be no. But looking back at my corporate career, why did I resign in the end? Why did I burn out in the corporate career? It was because I isolated myself. I was just too scared to be open, to be vulnerable, to ask for help. I was at the time a general manager of leading 72 hospitals and clinics in Indonesia, Jakarta. I wanted the next role. And for that, I tried to set myself up for success. I was not ready to talk. That left me lonely and isolated. As I then started to research the subject and I interviewed other senior executives, I found that about 30% of the senior executives I interviewed in Southeast Asia also admitted that they would suffer from loneliness and isolation, either currently or have done in the past. So that tells us that this is a big problem.
Do you think that problem... is any more expansive in the Western world or maybe Western world isn't even the right way to put it. It's more like the States because I'll tell you, man, like here, the culture here, this hustle porn has really been this toxic, pervasive idea that is, that has gotten in and executives feel like if they're not working right, they're losing. And so they start carving out time for personal fitness, for time with family, for time to just decompress. And they're just on and on. And I feel like and at least when I felt the loneliness is often when I feel this pressure to work even more. It's like it expands and really presses that loneliness quite a bit. Or is this something that's pretty equally spread out throughout the world?
I think you could be right. It could be even stronger and even more challenging in the US. But already what I saw was we live in this world where we elbow our way up the top to that corporate ladder only to find ourselves at the top like how I did. And then I question it. I question myself. Why did I do this? I pushed myself so hard to get here. To get here for what? And that was the beginning of my fall, as it happens with many others, because we define ourselves in this work. We strive so hard. And then if we lose that, even by ourselves, by realizing this is not the right mountain I climbed, or that the company go through acquisition, or they lay us off, and then we lose our identity with that.
Do you think there is a difference in the amount of loneliness or how people experience it between an entrepreneurial journey and a journey inside of a large corporation?
Yes, actually, I started my research around large organizations because I worked in a company with 1,400 staff myself. We can maybe call that the medium, but it's definitely not the startup for a small company. And that's what I wrote the book about. But as I then started to talk about this, more and more entrepreneurs came to me and said, Nick, this resonates with me as well. Running a small shop, I don't have anyone to speak to. No one can understand me. But however, I have investors who put on pressure. I have the board who really demand the results. Then this can be a very lonely affair. And we find, indeed, a lot of entrepreneurs finding themselves completely lonely, isolated, burnt out. And if we talk at the extreme end also,
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What leads to executive loneliness?
0:00–0:49
2
How does isolation affect leadership?
0:49–10:22
3
Why do entrepreneurs struggle with vulnerability?
10:22–15:04
4
What is the role of mentorship in overcoming challenges?
15:04–19:59
5
How can vulnerability be a strength?
19:59–37:01
6
What is the significance of self-awareness in leadership?
37:01–44:17
7
How do societal norms affect men's vulnerability?
44:17–45:24
8
What is the relationship between masculinity and vulnerability?
45:24–46:53
Speakers
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