Trump's Deal Will be the End of Ukraine - Andrei Illarionov
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Why does Trump view Ukraine as irrelevant?
For Trump, Ukraine is irrelevant. Ukraine does not exist in these calculations at all. Because from this point of view, Ukraine belongs to the Russian sphere of influence. And that is why the business of Mr. Trump is just to silence Ukraine as much as possible. To silence Zelensky, to silence anyone. The argument from the Trump administration is when we sign the minerals deal with Ukraine, that will guarantee Americans in Ukraine This is a kindergarten. I'm really sorry to say so. There is no economic success without security guarantees. Mark Rutte, the Secretary General of NATO, he said publicly, on record, seems to be he knows something, that the total military output of all NATO countries combined is 25% of Russian military output. Four times less.
Andrei Laronov, welcome back to the show. We had you on exactly three years ago to talk about the Russian invasion of Ukraine, what Vladimir Putin was doing. Our interest was you were someone who worked with Vladimir Putin closely for six years, and we talked about it then. And you messaged us recently saying that there are a lot of things being said in the English-speaking world that are not true and that need to be discussed, something we agree with you on, by the way. So... What are you talking about? What's going on? What do you think needs to be talked about in a different way?
First of all, thank you, Konstantin. Thank you, Francis, for inviting me once again. It's nice to see you, and I need to confess that I follow your activities, trying to follow what you're doing, how you're doing. It seems to me you've got substantial progress since we met last time. Your subscription rate jumped up, skyrocketed, so now you're stars in the English-speaking world. and you are not only kind of very popular and it's a fact of life, but you happen to be one of very few voices in English-speaking world that, from my point of view, continue to speak truth, unlike many other voices that somehow stopped to do it or have been under influence from Putin's slash Kremlin propaganda. And I can name only kind of three sources that I follow that at least continue to talk about war, that Putin is waging against Ukraine, about Russia, about Ukraine, about many other things. Just first of all, you, I would say Douglas Murray, and I would say Piers Morgan. Also, from time to time, he's trying to sort of keep the line. And to my...
observation uh all of you coming from britain and i just uh why those only british voices but not american voices it's it's another topic for discussion for me but it is shocking for me i would not hide this uh my feeling that um many, if not almost all, American voices either became silent or started to reproduce Putin's slash Kremlin propaganda, especially concerning Ukraine, concerning Putin's aggression against Ukraine, concerning Putin's policy, and so on. So that is why it's quite shocking. It's quite discouraging. And I would like to thank you for at least keeping this line. and continue your stance and support for truth. So that is why I think it would be useful if we can talk about those issues objectively, openly, honestly. Even some people might not like what we can talk.
Well, let's do that. Let's do that. And look, from our perspective, we don't have a line. I guess my to the extent that I understand Ukraine and Russia, you know, growing up in Russia, living in Ukraine for some time, having family, having relatives, speaking to people in both countries about what's going on from the inside, speaking to people who are involved in various things. at various levels in government. I'm just telling people in the West what I know and what I'm hearing. That's all I'm doing. And if I was hearing something else, I'd be saying something else. But I agree with you. One of the fascinating things, I'm not sure if you experienced this because we're both Russian speakers and I imagine we both consume Russian speaking media.
is watching something become a talking point in Russian media, and then two weeks later, or three weeks later, or a month later, it appears in English-speaking media as this new thing. Have you seen that pipeline happen yourself?
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