Annabel

Like it's off the charts.

And that tells you something really interesting about her and it's that she's been an observer for a really long time.

And a really good observer, too, because, I mean, obviously she will have thought back across things that she saw in her childhood, particularly growing up with a dad who had a kind of progressive medical health issue.

But the things that she noticed and the dynamics that she noticed between other people and remembered

Like it's unusual for a child to be that observant because I think mostly as a child you're like, hey, this is the world and I'm the centre of it.

But she's clearly not like that.

Did you get the sense she'd gone through it in advance and just had put stuff in there that she wanted to talk about or was it a genuine kind of what's in here kind of thing?

And you never stop being reminded of your ex either.

It's not like, you know, Kylie Minogue ever goes that way.

Yeah, there's actually a new Kylie biography coming out later this year by Michael Craig, who I think has had a bunch of new interviews with her as well.

So that is one to look forward to.

You know, weirdly enough, maybe now that we've just talked about Michelle Obama and Kylie Minogue bracketed together accidentally, yeah,

I think both of them give me a similar kind of slightly protective feeling because I think they're both people who, you know, went into a life of fame.

In Michelle Obama's case, she just did not want her husband to run for president and kind of eventually went, okay, and sort of in a little way hoped that he wouldn't win because she was so worried about what it would mean for them and their children and their safety and all this other stuff.

And Kylie went into being famous, you know, sort of from here to here to here to here.

And I guess as you're going through those stages, you're only thinking of the stage that you're in and trying to do the best job you can and, you know, get through it and keep your people around you safe and all that sort of stuff.

But one thing that I think is really important

interesting is that like you can't unwind any of that and like every stage you go through that makes you more famous, you know, it doesn't recede, particularly for people like that.

Well, I think there's just so many things you can't do, and I know that's a very kind of obvious thing to say, but it's just unrepealable.

You know, even watching the way Michelle Obama travels through the world, you know, she's never alone.