Bella Freud

And if you fancy someone and don't like what they're wearing, does it kill your attraction?

I think completely.

And I mean...

I'm sorry to sound so completely superficial, but... I don't think there's anything superficial about fashion just because it's on the surface.

It's a manifestation of the depth within.

Sometimes people can wear things that are an alert to something and that you can either ignore or not ignore.

And then some people have active phobias, like Heider Ackermann said he had a phobia of buttons.

And when he went to kiss someone once who was wearing a three-button T-shirt, he had to rush away at top speed because he couldn't bear it.

zip to help you i like stefano pilati saying um he hated he hates those cutaway socks that lots of people wear with trainers and skinny jeans but if someone's cute then it doesn't really matter about those things yeah which is of course everything it's yeah

Oh, yeah, being a good dancer.

Because fashion isn't especially associated with activism in the way that music is, but I think good design is part of activism because it attracts interest and a desire to know more.

I wondered how do you express your protest?

Yes, I do.

I think you've answered it actually.

It's almost that fashion is protest.

You know, it's just a different guise, isn't it?

It's a place to wear your heart on your sleeve, isn't it?

Literally.

I wanted to ask you, you've worked with all the great designers in the world.

And I read a hilarious story about you and Thierry Mugler, who you were really close to and worked with a lot.