Ben Greenfield

And even though psychedelics can do something like that, it's temporary.

It's never permanent.

And I think the only way to truly...

get rid of shame and guilt and fear in a permanent way is through an interaction with the divine in a way that goes beyond just drugs and in a way that goes to more of the Christian idea of just pure forgiveness, no matter who you are, and knowing that you are free to leave that and get rid of it because someone else has taken it for you.

right and to yeah to to believe that like you as a human being can be forgiven and not carry shame and guilt and fear around your whole life because

There is a divine being who wrote a greater story for your life.

And that divine being loves you enough to accept you for who you are.

Not that you should want to continue or continue to be a bad person because of that.

But who loves you for who you are.

And that's why I think that...

not just spirituality, but religiosity, like having it like woven into your life in some way.

We have that in the Jewish world.

It's like a very freeing way to live, just to know there's a greater purpose written for your life.

And no matter what, you are unconditionally loved.

Right.

The eternal hole in the soul that can only be filled by something eternal.

Exactly.

Because there's like this gnawing that, wait, you're telling me we're a bunch of like chunks of flesh and blood that's like floating on a giant rock through space and then like at the end of the day, like you just kick the can one day and it's game over.

And it's over.

And that's it.