Cathy Newman

And I was like...

But that's ridiculous.

And the whole thing went viral because it spoke volumes about the contortions that everyone around Boris Johnson were making to try and explain away his behaviour.

So, yeah, you could say, was that clickbait?

Was that a viral moment?

It was a viral moment, but it also told you something bigger.

And I think that's where those kind of social media moments are really important.

It's if they speak to a sort of higher truth.

I think, actually, it probably comes to the point that I've never been very good at sleeping.

So it's actually not necessarily a good thing.

I think even right from being a baby, I was never... You know, my kids always... What are we talking about?

How many hours?

Well...

You know, if it's an election night, I don't feel tired when I've done an election night.

I don't feel like I could just push on through.

But that's not a good thing, I don't think.

Well, no, the good thing about this book, and I can't remember, so I can't name check it, it probably would be product placement anyway, but it's very good because she just says you've got to worry less about sleep, which was really refreshing to hear because I'd be lying there awake at three in the morning thinking, oh, my God, I've only got, you know...

Two hours.

Three hours more to sleep.

Yeah, I've only had two hours sleep.