Jan Jachimowicz

But in the same breath, I should mention that there's a lot of work that has shown that when we see someone who's really passionate for what they do, we also admire them more.

We want to help and support them more.

So there's this underlying conundrum.

What does it actually mean and look like?

There is one more thing I want to add to Nancy.

And I'm really glad, Nancy, that you went back to grad school after 25 years of banking.

More often than not, I think that's a very rare story for the following reason.

People often underestimate how much they change in the future.

There's this really wonderful work by Daniel Gilbert and others, and they call it the end of history illusion.

We think that we're the most complete version of ourselves at this point in time, and that we have changed more in the past than we will change in the future.

Whereas when you look at the actual data, that's not true.

We actually change a lot more in the future than we might think.

And so I have a lot of students who come to my office and who report the very same thing that Nancy was telling me.

I'm 25 years old.

I have student debt.

I need to go into finance, consulting.

I need to make money.

I need to save for retirement.

And I'm very sympathetic to those arguments.

And I say, I understand you have those constraints.