Jeffrey Goldberg

I lived in a madrasa in Pakistan because I wanted to understand why everybody there was supporting this guy named Osama bin Laden, who nobody had really been talking about.

The second issue that I've been writing about since that period is the growing illiberalism on the Israeli right.

And I've been banging my head against the wall on those two things for 25, 30 years.

And here we are.

It doesn't mean you don't do the work.

It just means that whatever there are, there are forces out there that are.

Pretty powerful.

So, I mean, I think everybody who supports the right of Israel to be a free and thriving Jewish majority homeland and haven for the oppressed Jews of the world.

By the way, you know, all this European anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism.

Europe is the reason there has to be an Israel.

You know, there's not a lot of introspection on their turn.

You know what I mean?

But put that aside.

That's part nine of our conversation.

Point of personal privilege.

Yeah, yeah.

But the thing is, it's like, you never know when, you know, something's on a precipice.

We think about this a lot, you and me, about is America an autocratic state?

Is it bending toward autocracy?

Is it bending the other way?