Keith Payne
speaker
387 appearances
1 recordings
1 series
first heard Nov 2024
last heard Nov 2024
Keith Payne’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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Appearances
Unfortunately, like all things, there's not a right or wrong. It's got to be some weird percentage you work out in your life that results in happiness, I guess.
And even maybe what are my real goals other than what I'm coveting is just flashy. OK, so your new book, Good, Reasonable People, The Psychology Behind America's Dangerous Divide.
This is really fun because we just had another professor on with a book called Tribal and almost debunking a little bit the very popular tribalism explanation of our political divide, acknowledging where it exists, but also not looking at it as such a negative thing and rounding out our understanding of what we know about that.
us them in group out group thing so that's been kind of helpful and so that's maybe one look at the issue you look at it through a bunch of different lenses and why i'm most excited about this book is i don't really have many causes this is maybe the only one that i constantly am fighting for monica nice fights the most recent month have been around this topic oh great well so
The book, I think you have a similar goal as mine, which is we have got to stop looking at half the country as bad or half the country as racist or half the country as hateful. And by the way, or if you're on the right, half the couple is whining babies and snowflake, you know, whatever stereotype they handed you in your in-group, we got to break out of that.
And so this book really kind of systematically looks at how we get there. And then a lot of hiccups in thinking that get us there. Yeah. What motivated you? You give a good story about your brother and Facebook.
You state some of the data that's out there. I forget what percentage, but it's younger people saying across the board they couldn't date anyone outside of their own political party. I think of these great examples like I remember growing up and getting a real bang out of the fact that the raging Cajun was married to, you know, a strategist for the Clinton campaigns married to Mary Madeline.
Mary Madeline, strategist for the Republican campaign. And I thought, that's admirable. That's really cool that those two love each other and they have completely different opinions. And that's like an anthem now. That's insane. The followers of either of those people would feel like it would be a betrayal for them to love and be in a relationship with someone on the opposite side. Go ahead.
Yeah, I did disagree. I do disagree. If I asked you to describe Callie and why you're best friends, whether you would list all these qualities and you wouldn't say, and she's a Democrat, you know, like I think the core, her character, what you like about her really, I don't think her political identity would come up.
Or if you were asked to describe why you liked any of your friends, I don't know that that Political identity would come and be like, they're dependable, they're thoughtful, they listen to me, they're caring, they're loving, they're generous. There'd be all these things.
So my objection is this very abstract thing of a political identity, the fact that it could nullify all these actual qualities in a person is scary to me.
So when you hear that, that little light debate, by the way, that was very light and respectful. It got a lot more heated in front of our boss last time. That's who we are.
Well, you talk about this weird flip that also happened where it used to be when you were growing up and me as well, there was this dynamic where a child would go to a parent and say, I'm gay, and then kind of wait whether they were going to accept or reject them.
And now you have young people publicly on social media talking about having no choice but to reject their parents because of their political point of view. It's just kind of an interesting flip and very similar through whatever their point of view is. I'm going to reject this person. And that's kind of interesting and feels newer.
Yeah, I have that fear. I'm not naive. You have to be different than your parents. I was different than mine. My girls are gonna be different than me. I hope they can accept that. Or I guess I'll probably just fucking join them. I won't lose them over it. Maybe that's the power they have. But yeah, you talk about some warning signs and you list three of them.
And one is where democracy unravels into civil war. So one of them is dehumanizing. You want to talk about dehumanizing a little bit?
Yeah, outside the circle of moral concern you wrote. And I thought, oh my God, yes, that is so powerful. The second you decide they're not the same thing as you, then the sky is the limit. And we do it in even less malignant ways in that the Germans were Jerrys or Krauts. Anyone we've been at war with, now we don't do it.
But the long history of our wars, we gave everyone a name as well to help the soldiers dehumanize the opponent.
It is. He has like Planet of the Apes. No one's shedding a tear when you got to fight the apes to maintain law and order. Yeah, that's scary. And then I've seen this in recent times, which is I saw liberals take some pleasure when COVID deniers would die or go into the hospital. And I was like, this is a little scary. I don't agree with their opinion. I don't think it's good.
The moment we're happy someone died or got tragically ill through their own ignorance, I don't know if that's where we want to be. And there were people on the right that were happy gays were dying of AIDS.
Showing 41–60 of 387 · page 3 of 20
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