Keith Payne
speaker
387 appearances
1 recordings
1 series
first heard Nov 2024
last heard Nov 2024
Keith Payne’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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Appearances
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Another of these three warning signals would be political differences, aligning with racial or religious differences.
Yeah. In the book, you say 90 percent of black Americans are Democrats. Two thirds of Hispanic Americans are Democrats. 80% of Republicans are white, yet only 60% of white people are Republicans. So it's pretty stark how everyone's filing into these political identities.
Any member of either of these sides would give all the issues that led them to this side. But if you were an alien hovering above Earth looking at it, and you go, oh, yeah, that's all good that those are the issues. But A, the issues have changed nonstop. They're flip-flopping back and forth.
And if there's a 90% chance of you're black, you're ending up in this party, there's something going on other than the issues. And if there's a 70% chance, if you're a Christian, you're going to end up. That's interesting.
I guess it's a chicken or an egg thing. It's like if you're born into this group, you will have these opinions and this identity. You'll just inherit it in a sense. I guess. I see what you're saying.
Yeah, right. You're going to reason through it, but I'm also going to tell you where your reasoning is going to take you. It's pretty interesting. And then I like this part that we have a universal, again, both sides have a universal tendency to believe that people who are different than us are irrational or foolish. I hear this all the time.
The most generous they could give the other side is to say, well, if they knew what I knew, they would think like I would think. The notion that you could all know the same thing and have a different opinions beyond comprehension.
Yeah, that's what we were going to get into. And you say the fundamental source of our division is our need to flexibly rationalize ideas in order to see ourselves as good people. That is so profound. Will you give the example? Well, let's get into psychological immune system. Define that for us.
And can I just add what I love about the way it's framed in this is it's not even about being great or being a genius. It's just about being good. Everyone has a pretty baseline desire to believe that they are good. That's kind of sweet. It's not even that ostentatious.
Tell us what happened when you heard the Tara Reade allegations against Joe Biden.
That's right.
A thousand percent. And it's coming so quickly as you describe it in the book. Like you're in the kitchen making coffee. You hear that. You go through that whole, I know I'm good and I'm going to vote for this person.
So how do I take this very inconvenient piece of information and reduce it in a way that I can hold on to this notion I'm still good and still going to vote for someone that may or may not have done this?
see them doing it and we notice it's incredibly frustrating but what we don't realize is that we're probably doing the same thing i reflect back on the monica lewinsky scandal and at the time i remember and my family was very left my mother and i were like someone's sexual life has nothing to do with them running the country this is such a witch hunt it has nothing to do with the job we ask this person to do we don't care what he's doing sexually of course if it was our opponent
It's a much different analysis. And yeah, I just have caught myself a bunch of different times going like, oh, yeah, I totally if I like the person, I'm probably going to figure out a way why it's a little different or the ultimate good is still worth pursuing. And that may even be the most rational decision. But minimally, I have to grant the other side the same kind of empathy in that situation.
Yeah. Can you tell us the difference between reasons and causes for reasons?
And would it be fair to say that for your in-group, you're pretty willing to accept their reason? And then for the out-group, you're quite suspicious of their reasons?
Yeah, you give some inane examples like dad goes to the grocery store because he's got to cook dinner. Then there was one about mom and then you would intuit something completely different despite what she told you.
Yeah, because even in my utopian view of this, I'm not asking everyone to sell out what they believe and hold dear to them. What I'm asking is you don't have to align yourself with companies and products to demonstrate your political affiliation. You don't have to be online screaming at people and fighting with people. There doesn't have to be these riots we see. To me, we already have the roadmap.
We already have had dramatically different views and they've played themselves out when people vote as a democracy should, but we haven't necessarily had all the name calling and the otherness and the violence and the hate and the fucked up Thanksgivings and the families breaking apart. We don't need all that wreckage as a result of our different opinions. We just got to go vote.
Showing 61–80 of 387 · page 4 of 20
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