Mariana van Zeller

There's so much corruption there.

Even if the police knows where I am, there's no chance that I'll get... Probably could have done it without masks.

And sometimes we actually have to convince people to do it with masks because they don't want to wear sunglasses or they just want to wear this mask or just...

Mouth, cover the mouth, and we're insistent on this is silly because if you get in trouble, then we'll get in trouble too.

And our whole team gets in trouble, including people like Miguel Angel Vega, who lives in Mexico.

Because if they found out because of a story that we did, they're going to say that maybe we ratted them out or we gave information.

You're getting in trouble with a cartel, which is much worse.

And so we're very careful with protecting identities.

And then let me just tell you the third reason why I think people talk to us.

And it's this very human characteristic we all share of wanting to be understood, right?

We all want others to understand why we make mistakes, why we do it, why we are who we are.

And that's the opportunity I give everyone.

I tell everyone I approach, look, I'm not here to judge you.

I'm here because I really want to understand why you do what you do.

Because I think that's ultimately much more interesting.

And that doesn't mean condoning what they do.

Yeah.

And it's not my first time interviewing him.

Yeah, I interviewed him before.

Yeah.