Michael Wolff

Clinton turned his back on Epstein after Epstein's legal problems began.

So he was, you know, I think he felt that at best Clinton was a fair weather friend.

And that was largely the regard he had for Clinton at this point.

And there was a set of other people like that.

Many people turned on Epstein after this.

Yes, yeah, Ghislaine Maxwell.

So Ghislaine Maxwell, who had been very close to him, obviously, after 2004, after the police stepped into this, 2004, 2005, she very much distanced herself from Epstein.

And Epstein was hurt by this.

She distanced herself from Epstein?

Yes.

Yeah.

They had no, I mean, this is in this story and obviously Ghislaine is so closely linked to Epstein at this point and the one person in this whole scandal to go to jail.

But the truth is that by 2004, 2005, she was pretty much out of his life.

Yeah.

And yeah, I mean a little.

You know again, it's very hard to separate.

I mean the whole facts of this of this Epstein story are clouded, not least of all by the fact that that most of the information that we get about this story is from people who don't know anything who are speculating or who are adopting the information they have heard from somebody else who doesn't know anything and the people who do know things.

or have been so paranoid about being connected to Jeffrey Epstein that they haven't spoken.

So therefore, everything or many of the things that we know about this story are soft.

Well, I don't... I mean, I think what's not recognized is that, A, that Ghislaine was out of his life at a relatively long-ago moment, that at...