Steve Greenblatt

And there are going to be things that are going to happen.

And some of that is going to be hope.

Very interesting.

So as we wrap up this episode, Joe, do you have some tips you can provide for people that, you know, because I think we've all been talking for a long time in the industry about modern programming languages, doing things that, you know, adopting IT mindset.

You know, what are some tips that,

Because I think you started this off with saying you have to look outside of the world that you've been living in.

Are there others you can share?

I like that a lot.

And I agree with you that we've become more collaborative.

And I think programmers need to put themselves in an environment where they could be more creative is probably a lot of what you're saying.

And some of them have that where they are now.

And some of them, if they have that itch, need to seek those types of roles and opportunities.

Well, thanks again, Joe.

Many more conversations in the future.

And we want to keep up with you and keep learning about what you're doing.

And we'd love to even speak with some more of your team in the future.

So looking forward to doing that.

Until then, how can people get in touch with you?

How can they learn more about what you're doing and all the things that you contribute to the industry?

Well, always a pleasure and always enjoy talking with you and looking forward to doing it again soon.