Steven Zuber

Yeah.

So I think that true well-being requires that sort of stuff.

All right.

You have convinced me.

It feels like intuitively that would be more satisfying...

Then, you know, like I was at your place really high on mushrooms once.

And because of a back thing, my my left leg doesn't cooperate without a modicum of conscious attention.

So like I just wanted to go for a walk.

I'm like, well, that's not happening.

I'm going to stay here.

I felt very accomplished for not pissing myself laying on your couch.

And thank you.

And eventually making a cup of tea, you know, like those were like the smallest, you know, levels of achievement that one could hope for for a base human.

And they felt really significant to me that that feels like I'm missing out on higher level experiences.

If I feel, you know, peak satisfaction for managing to find something to drink, which which might be what it's like to be a wild animal.

Yeah.

Kind of wonderful.

Well, I mean, so wonderful, but the peaks are so much lower than the peaks that we get from being able to have real reflective thoughts and ambitions.

Yeah.

We just did an episode on chronic pain and similar ailments, and there are compelling cases that it's largely psychological.