Chris Hayes and Alex Kantrowitz: Trying To Break the Whole Thing

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The Bulwark Daily 1h 9m 4 speakers 8 chapters transcribed
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What are the implications of the DeepSeek AI development?

Chris Hayes 0:30
But first, I get to turn the mic around on somebody you might know, you might have heard of it that he wrote about in his book that he's, he's kind of a big deal. He's kind of a minor celebrity that gets noticed in the airports. Now, his name is Chris Hayes. He's on MSNBC. And he's got a new book out the sirens call how attention became the world's most endangered resource. How you doing, man?

How does Chris Hayes feel about being in the public eye?

Chris Hayes 0:48
I'm great, man. How are you? I'm doing well. You're dealing with the gaze of strangers.
Alex Wagner 0:52
Okay. I'm dealing with the gaze of strangers. I'm pretty used to it by now, but it'll mess you up a little bit in the beginning. Actually, the press tour is weird. Like, I don't... I think when I was younger, I liked it more. I don't love being the object of press. Hmm. You know? Probably because there's like a control issue. Yeah, right. Like, when it's your show, you control it, whereas with... It's other people that are controlling it, which is... The reason that a lot of powerful people don't like... journalism like fundamentally right you don't have if you're a powerful person you're used to people like deferring to you and being very differential and and having control over them and like that's just not the way journalism works like it's like it's interesting that you can see all this rage by all these powerful people about against journalists and fundamentally it's because the power dynamics of journalism are intentionally not in the hands of the most powerful people
Chris Hayes 1:44
They like attention and control. You know, they like to be lavished, praised, praised to be lavished on them.
Alex Wagner 1:49
That's exactly right. That's exactly right.
Chris Hayes 1:51
In exactly the manner which they wish for it to be lavished on them. Okay. Yeah. You have some interesting insights about things that I dealt with in therapy, about the difference between attention and recognition. So we're going to do deep thinking, but unfortunately we have to do news too. There was some news last night, the Office of Management and Budget. This seems where all the problems are going to be coming from in the next administration. Yeah. Put out a memo ending all grant making. They put a stop work order on all grants. This includes USAID and others. Among potentially the things affected by this is the program that helps women, infants, and children that need food, the WIC program. Thoughts?

What are the recent changes in federal funding policies?

Alex Wagner 2:29
There's a few different tracks in which they're operating on, but one of them is, and we started to see this last week with people finding out that their National Institutes of Health grant panels were being canceled. clinical trials being canceled, like, oh, skin cancer drug. They are trying to break the whole thing because they want to refashion it such that the entirety of the federal government is an object tool of the one person who occupies the presidency and nothing else. There are a bunch of statutory requirements in place that are geared towards the presidency serving the public interest, and they want to turn it into a 19th century urban machine with nuclear weapons.
Chris Hayes 3:21
Like that's the goal here. I was going back even further than that. I was thinking like spoil system.
Alex Wagner 3:27
Yeah, right. I mean, yes, the spoil system is an example. But now the other thing about this OMB thing that's nuts to me is it's also as with a bunch of other stuff we could talk about. It's, I think, flatly illegal. They have this theory, which they have said that despite the fact that the founders were very clear about who has the power of the purse. and put that in Article I to Congress.
Chris Hayes 3:51
And who was that that has the power of the purse? Is that the Trump family organization? That's Barron.

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