1386: Sean Wiswesser | Inside Putin's Russian Intelligence Machine
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This episode is brought to you by Xero. That's Xero with an X. Running a small business and managing your finances shouldn't make your day more complicated. Learn more at Xero.com. Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people. Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers, even the occasional real life pirate special operator or music mogul. And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs.
These are collections of some of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology and geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults, and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit jordanharbinger.com or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today on the show, Russian intelligence is either a terrifying army of 10-foot-tall supermen... Or a bunch of guys stealing gasoline from their own surveillance cars and binge-watching The Sopranos while the FBI watches their every move. Today, retired CIA officer Sean Wiswesser takes us inside Putin's intelligence machine. Havana syndrome, sleeper agents, disposable teenagers recruited on Telegram, honey traps that start with a hotel maid doing your laundry, and assassinations designed to leave a radioactive signature.
We'll also find out why the West's refusal to impose consequences could invite the next attack against the Baltic states, undersea cables, or even critical infrastructure right here at home. Here we go with Sean Wisswisser. Before we get into what your book is actually about, I would love to talk about this Havana Syndrome thing. For people who don't know, this is diplomats, CIA officers, and other diplomatic personnel in countries like Cuba, for example, and I think Vienna, they basically think they got zapped with some kind of microwave and now they get headaches and they've got disorientation and maybe some hearing loss or something like that. And I know former CIA who say my friend has it. She's not crazy.
Her boss has it. He's a high level diplomat, a career state department guy, whatever. And these are not fragile folks who just aren't cut out for life overseas. They're not people who watch too much YouTube. But then I have other friends who are also former CIA who go, this is a conspiracy theory. And anybody who has it is just a weirdo who needs to stop watching the news.
Yeah, Jordan. So first, thanks for having me on. And it's an interesting topic to delve into. I should state my disclaimer from CIA up front. My views are mine alone. Don't represent the U.S. government. I'm retired from CIA now, been a few years. I do think it's likely the Russians were behind those incidents. I have colleagues. I cannot explain away their stories. These are colleagues that I have high respect for that suffered inexplicable medical incidents, very debilitating. Now, along with that, there's a few facts that we should talk about that I know are facts and from personal experience talking to and knowing some of these people. First, it was poorly handled, and that's been acknowledged publicly by CIA and the entire intelligence community.
It was poorly handled. The incidents and the allegations and the reports of... officers that were suffering weren't treated with the respect that they deserved at the time. And so what it led to was critical evidence and critical information that could have helped with later findings. It was lost. And then I do think, unfortunately, there were some people, I would never say who, I'd never make allegations. There were some that jumped on the bandwagon to try to say, yeah, I'd like to try to get benefits from this. I'd like to be included in this group. And it wasn't legit.
I want to be medically retired, basically.
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Chapters
7 chapters
1
What is the opening introduction and sponsor message for this episode?
0:00–5:31
2
What is Havana Syndrome and why do CIA officers consider it a real threat?
5:31–40:52
3
How do corruption and bizarre training practices reveal the culture of Russian intelligence?
40:52–59:10
4
How does corruption on the Ukrainian front force Russian soldiers to pay for their own survival?
59:10–1:14:34
5
Why did a simple phone‑number mix‑up expose a Russian illegal network in the United States?
1:14:34–1:26:29
6
What are the “honey‑trap” and emotional‑bond tactics Russian spies use to recruit targets?
1:26:29–1:43:32
7
How is Russia turning its massive surveillance state into a modern hybrid‑war machine with drones, cyber attacks, and undersea cable sabotage?
1:43:32–1:55:30
Speakers
1 identifiedMore from The Jordan Harbinger Show
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Introducing What Could Go Right?