Britain Isn't Ready For A Real War - Col. Hamish de Bretton-Gordon OBE
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What is Col. Hamish de Bretton‑Gordon’s background and why does he think Britain’s defence is under‑resourced?
What is the state of Britain's national defence?
When I joined the army, there were 150,000 people and 1,000 tanks. At the moment, it's about 70,000 and 148 tanks. What he has done is stirred up European militaries and made people realise that actually we cannot rely on the US. We must produce our own military capability so that when the Russian president looks west, he sees a credible defence. We are learning from the lessons from Ukraine, 80% lethality from drones, 20% from conventional. We now know that certainly for the foreseeable future, the next decade or so, it's going to be an autonomous type battle. And unless we can operate in that, we're going to struggle. Hey, Mr. Brett and Gordon, welcome to Trigonometry. Well, thank you very much indeed for having me.
It's been a great ambition to come and do your pod at some stage.
Pleasure to have you. We want to talk about the British Army and also the evolution of warfare, the war in Ukraine. Perhaps we'll touch on Syria, which is an area of great expertise. Before we do all that, tell us a little bit about your story, your journey, your background.
Well, I come from a real military family. I think I'm the fourth generation who've been through the academy at Sandhurst, a fairly sort of ordinary academic life at school. I didn't really get many A-levels. I did agriculture at the University of Reading and just scraped through and then went into the army, which a regular officer for 23 years. I was lucky in inverted commas. I sort of hit all the big matches, as it were. So I was a young tank commander in the first Gulf War and then did Bosnia War, Kosovo War, did a few UN trips in Cyprus, then was involved in the second Gulf War as well. And I did a number of tours in Iraq when I was commanding my regiment, a number of tours in Afghanistan as well.
And when I left the army after 23 years, I then got involved in Syria for sort of 10 years in and out of there. And to see Assad gone and a lot of happy faces in Syria is great. And after I left the army, I sort of got into a whole host of things, sort of journaling as well and writing books. So, yeah, I've had a very fortunate life, I think, from a military perspective and quite a lucky one. You know, I've survived a few scrapes. And the irony, having somebody who did so badly at school, I'm also now a don at Magdalen College, Cambridge, which when they asked me if I would do it, I said, hang on, you've got the wrong man here. You know, I've got one A-level, you know, hardly any academics. and a third-class degree in agriculture.
They said, Hamish, you've got a lot of very clever people here at Cambridge. We just need a few with a bit of experience. That's where you come in. So that's sort of my story in a nutshell.
Well, it's great to have you. One of the things that we've been covering and talking about a lot And it's been a big discussion point in our countries, I'm sure you're well aware, which is the state of Britain's defence, the armed forces, the lack of funding and other issues that this country has been dealing with for a long time. What is the state of Britain's national defence?
Well, I think it's a very easy one to decry and put down. I think like a lot of NATO countries, European NATO countries, our government so overspent the peace dividend after the end of the Cold War that actually a lot of capability was denuded. A lot of people thought at the end of the Cold War, that was it. And then we got into all the counterinsurgency with al-Qaeda in Iraq and then the Taliban in Afghanistan that we focused very much on there. And we sort of lost the ability to do war fighting, as it were. As part of that, what it meant is we diminished our skills. So where we find ourselves at the moment is a very small military. I mean, when I joined the army, there were 150,000 people and 1,000 tanks.
At the moment, it's about 70,000. and 148 tanks. Now, not necessarily saying that that is a metric, but I think it just gives people an idea of what the contraction has been and the disinvestment.
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Chapters
4 chapters
1
What is Col. Hamish de Bretton‑Gordon’s background and why does he think Britain’s defence is under‑resourced?
0:02–17:35
2
How has the size of the British Army and its tank fleet changed since the guest joined the service?
17:35–29:01
3
Why does the guest say morale and recruitment are critical for the British military’s recovery?
29:01–54:56
4
What does the guest identify as the biggest funding gaps and why does he think defence should be a top fiscal priority?
54:56–1:20:19
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