Peter Kafka

Hey, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, a podcast about technology and media and how they're both changing all the time. And this week, I'm trying to figure out how Donald Trump is changing the media in Washington, in the courtroom, and in the boardroom. On to help me figure it all out is Sarah Fisher, the excellent Washington-based media reporter for Axios.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

And this week I'm talking about the state of the movies and the state of TV and how they all get melded together in the Oscars, a huge event that looks like it's going to get smaller every year. Here to explain what happened this year and what's going to happen in the future is Matt Bellany, the veteran Hollywood journalist from Puck.

Matt is smart, and he's going to make you feel smart for listening in. You can hear our chat on channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Hey there, I'm Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the podcast about tech and media and the way they're colliding. And this week I'm talking about the state of the movies and the state of TV and how they all get melded together in the Oscars. A huge event that looks like it's going to get smaller every year.

Here to explain what happened this year and what's going to happen in the future is Matt Bellany, the veteran Hollywood journalist from Puck. Matt is smart, and he's going to make you feel smart for listening in. You can hear our chat on channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

This is Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the show about what happens when media and tech collide. And this week I'm talking to Katie Drummond, who runs Wired. She's found a way to breathe new life into that publication by covering news.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

Hey, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, a podcast about technology and media and how they're both changing all the time. And this week, I'm trying to figure out how Donald Trump is changing the media in Washington, in the courtroom and in the boardroom. On to help me figure it all out is Sarah Fisher, the excellent Washington-based media reporter for Axios.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcast.

Hey, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, a podcast about technology and media and how they're both changing all the time. And this week, I'm trying to figure out how Donald Trump is changing the media in Washington and the courtroom and in the boardroom. On to help me figure it all out is Sarah Fisher, the excellent Washington-based media reporter for Axios.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

Hey there, I'm Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the podcast about tech and media and the way they're colliding. And this week I'm talking about the state of the movies and the state of TV and how they all get melded together in the Oscars. A huge event that looks like it's going to get smaller every year.

Here to explain what happened this year and what's going to happen in the future is Matt Bellany, the veteran Hollywood journalist from Puck. Matt is smart. He's going to make you feel smart for listening in. You can hear our chat on channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Hey there, I'm Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the podcast about tech and media and the way they're colliding. And this week I'm talking about the state of the movies and the state of TV and how they all get melded together in the Oscars. A huge event that looks like it's going to get smaller every year.

Here to explain what happened this year and what's going to happen in the future is Matt Bellany, the veteran Hollywood journalist from Puck. Matt is smart, and he's going to make you feel smart for listening in. You can hear our chat on channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

They know where I'm going.

Oh, I'm sad.

This is Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the show about what happens when media and tech collide. And this week I'm talking to Katie Drummond, who runs Wired. She's found a way to breathe new life into that publication by covering news.

Textagram, great name. You're making me regret telling you this. That's this week on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

Hey there, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, the show about what happens when tech and media collide. And this week, we're talking to Adam Mosseri, who runs Instagram and who also runs Threads. And he told me what Threads was originally going to be called. I called it Textagram as a joke, which unfortunately stuck as a name for months before I managed to kill it.

Hey, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, a podcast about technology and media and how they're both changing all the time. And this week, I'm trying to figure out how Donald Trump is changing the media in Washington, in the courtroom, and in the boardroom. On to help me figure it all out is Sarah Fisher, the excellent Washington-based media reporter for Axios.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcast.

Hey, this is Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, a show about what happens when tech smashes into media. And this week I'm talking about Twitch. Not the thing my eye does when I don't get enough sleep, but the pioneering live streaming service that Amazon bought for a billion dollars back in 2014. Twitch is still a big deal in live streaming, but so are lots of other places.

So how is Twitch CEO Dan Clancy going to deal with that competition? And why exactly do I want to watch people talk live on the Internet anyway? I asked Dan Clancy all about that and more on this week's channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Hey, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, a podcast about technology and media and how they're both changing all the time. And this week, I'm trying to figure out how Donald Trump is changing the media in Washington and the courtroom and in the boardroom. On to help me figure it all out is Sarah Fisher, the excellent Washington-based media reporter for Axios.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

Hey there, I'm Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the podcast about tech and media and the way they're colliding. And this week, I'm talking about the state of the movies and the state of TV and how they all get melded together in the Oscars, a huge event that looks like it's going to get smaller every year.

Here to explain what happened this year and what's going to happen in the future is Matt Bellany, the veteran Hollywood journalist from Puck. Matt is smart, and he's going to make you feel smart for listening in. You can hear our chat on channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Hey there, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, the show about what happens when tech and media collide. And this week, we're talking to Adam Mosseri, who runs Instagram and who also runs Threads. And he told me what Threads was originally going to be called. I called it Textagram as a joke, which unfortunately stuck as a name for months before I managed to kill it.

Textagram, great name. You're making me regret telling you this. That's this week on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

Hey, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, a podcast about technology and media and how they're both changing all the time. And this week, I'm trying to figure out how Donald Trump is changing the media in Washington, in the courtroom and in the boardroom. On to help me figure it all out is Sarah Fisher, the excellent Washington-based media reporter for Axios.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcast.

Hey there, I'm Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the podcast about tech and media and the way they're colliding. And this week I'm talking about the state of the movies and the state of TV and how they all get melded together in the Oscars, a huge event that looks like it's going to get smaller every year.

Here to explain what happened this year and what's going to happen in the future is Matt Bellany, the veteran Hollywood journalist from Puck. Matt is smart. He's going to make you feel smart for listening in. You can hear our chat on channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Right.

Hey, this is Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, a show about what happens when tech smashes into media. And this week I'm talking about Twitch. Not the thing my eye does when I don't get enough sleep, but the pioneering live streaming service that Amazon bought for a billion dollars back in 2014. Twitch is still a big deal in live streaming, but so are lots of other places.

So how is Twitch CEO Dan Clancy going to deal with that competition? And why exactly do I want to watch people talk live on the Internet anyway? I asked Dan Clancy all about that and more on this week's channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I've never been to Puerto Rico.

Hey there, I'm Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the podcast about tech and media and the way they're colliding. And this week I'm talking about the state of the movies and the state of TV and how they all get melded together in the Oscars. A huge event that looks like it's going to get smaller every year.

Here to explain what happened this year and what's going to happen in the future is Matt Bellany, the veteran Hollywood journalist from Puck. Matt is smart, and he's going to make you feel smart for listening in. You can hear our chat on channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

And my tried and true hiccup here is... Pour a glass of water, light a match, put the match out in the water, drink the water, throw away the match.

Think of a green rabbit.

President Trump on Truth Social has been suggesting that he's open to deals to end the trade war that he started by levying tariffs on U.S. trading partners. The administration says these Liberation Day tariffs will bring manufacturing jobs back to America. Why is that so important? There are some really dumb ways to answer that question.

When you sit behind a screen all day, it makes you a woman. Studies have shown this. Studies have shown this. And some much smarter ones.

Coming up on Today Explained, the best minds. The White House advisor who's gone ham on tariffs defends his position. Weekday afternoons. Today Explained helps you make sense of the mess.

Well, I thought that people were jumping a little bit out of line. They were getting yippy, you know? They were getting a little bit yippy, a little bit afraid.

This special series from The Verge is presented by Adobe Express. Hey there, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, the show about what happens when tech and media collide. And this week, we're talking to Adam Mosseri, who runs Instagram and who also runs Threads. And he told me what Threads was originally going to be called.

It's exhausting. And so, like, the...

It seems as though this is, is it just drumming up a misunderstanding from years ago to find a way to talk about you? Is that what this is?

I want to look up the Galloping Gourmet.

Oh, the Galloping Gourmet.

Do these people leave the compound? Are you going to see him at the restaurants? They just don't leave their houses, right?

Get it? Because I was having sex with an animal?

Hooters is shifting away from its iconic skimpy waitress outfits and bikini days, instead opting for a family-friendly vibe. They're vowing to improve the food and ingredients, and staff is now being urged to greet women first when groups arrive.

Hey, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, a podcast about technology and media and how they're both changing all the time. And this week, I'm trying to figure out how Donald Trump is changing the media in Washington, in the courtroom, and in the boardroom. On to help me figure it all out is Sarah Fisher, the excellent Washington-based media reporter for Axios.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

Hey, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, a podcast about technology and media and how they're both changing all the time. And this week, I'm trying to figure out how Donald Trump is changing the media in Washington and the courtroom and in the boardroom. On to help me figure it all out is Sarah Fisher, the excellent Washington-based media reporter for Axios.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcast.

Hey, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, a podcast about technology and media and how they're both changing all the time. And this week, I'm trying to figure out how Donald Trump is changing the media in Washington, in the courtroom, and in the boardroom. On to help me figure it all out is Sarah Fisher, the excellent Washington-based media reporter for Axios.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

Hey, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, a podcast about technology and media and how they're both changing all the time. And this week, I'm trying to figure out how Donald Trump is changing the media in Washington and the courtroom and in the boardroom. On to help me figure it all out is Sarah Fisher, the excellent Washington-based media reporter for Axios.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcast.

Hey, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, a podcast about technology and media and how they're both changing all the time. And this week, I'm trying to figure out how Donald Trump is changing the media in Washington, in the courtroom, and in the boardroom. On to help me figure it all out is Sarah Fisher, the excellent Washington-based media reporter for Axios.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

Hey, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, a podcast about technology and media and how they're both changing all the time. And this week, I'm trying to figure out how Donald Trump is changing the media in Washington and the courtroom and in the boardroom. On to help me figure it all out is Sarah Fisher, the excellent Washington-based media reporter for Axios.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

Hey, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, a podcast about technology and media and how they're both changing all the time. And this week, I'm trying to figure out how Donald Trump is changing the media in Washington and the courtroom and in the boardroom. On to help me figure it all out is Sarah Fisher, the excellent Washington-based media reporter for Axios.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcast.

Hey, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, a podcast about technology and media and how they're both changing all the time. And this week, I'm trying to figure out how Donald Trump is changing the media in Washington, in the courtroom, and in the boardroom. On to help me figure it all out is Sarah Fisher, the excellent Washington-based media reporter for Axios.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

Hey, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, a podcast about technology and media and how they're both changing all the time. And this week, I'm trying to figure out how Donald Trump is changing the media in Washington and the courtroom and in the boardroom. On to help me figure it all out is Sarah Fisher, the excellent Washington-based media reporter for Axios.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcast.

Lifetime

Hey, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, a podcast about technology and media and how they're both changing all the time. And this week, I'm trying to figure out how Donald Trump is changing the media in Washington, in the courtroom, and in the boardroom. On to help me figure it all out is Sarah Fisher, the excellent Washington-based media reporter for Axios.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

The bottom line is if they can beat $38 billion in sales for the quarter, it's going to be a great quarter.

Hey, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, a podcast about technology and media and how they're both changing all the time. And this week, I'm trying to figure out how Donald Trump is changing the media in Washington and the courtroom and in the boardroom. On to help me figure it all out is Sarah Fisher, the excellent Washington-based media reporter for Axios.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

Hey there, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, the show about what happens when tech and media collide. And this week, we're talking to Adam Mosseri, who runs Instagram and who also runs Threads. And he told me what Threads was originally going to be called.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

Hey there, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, the show about what happens when tech and media collide. And this week, we're talking to Adam Mosseri, who runs Instagram and who also runs Threads. And he told me what Threads was originally going to be called. I called it Textagram as a joke, which unfortunately stuck as a name for months before I managed to kill it.

Textagram, great name. You're making me regret telling you this. That's This Week on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

Hey there, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, the show about what happens when tech and media collide. And this week, we're talking to Adam Mosseri, who runs Instagram and who also runs Threads. And he told me what Threads was originally going to be called. I called it Textagram as a joke, which unfortunately stuck as a name for months before I managed to kill it.

Textagram, great name. You're making me regret telling you this. That's This Week on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

Hey there, this is Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, a show about tech and media and what happens when they collide. And this week I'm talking to PJ Vogt, who used to have a big podcast with a big audience and lots of resources. And then he didn't. So he had to figure out how to start again.

That's this week on Channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Hey there, this is Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, a show about tech and media and what happens when they collide. And this week I'm talking to PJ Vogt, who used to have a big podcast with a big audience and lots of resources. And then he didn't. So he had to figure out how to start again.

That's this week on Channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Hey there, this is Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, a show about tech and media and what happens when they collide. And this week I'm talking to PJ Vogt, who used to have a big podcast with a big audience and lots of resources. And then he didn't. So he had to figure out how to start again.

That's this week on Channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Hey there, I'm Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the podcast about tech and media and the way they're colliding. And this week I'm talking about the state of the movies and the state of TV and how they all get melded together in the Oscars, a huge event that looks like it's going to get smaller every year.

Here to explain what happened this year and what's going to happen in the future is Matt Bellany, the veteran Hollywood journalist from Puck. Matt is smart, and he's going to make you feel smart for listening in. You can hear our chat on channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

This is Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the show about what happens when media and tech collide. And this week, I'm talking to Katie Drummond, who runs Wired. She's found a way to breathe new life into that publication by covering news.

Hey there, I'm Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the podcast about tech and media and the way they're colliding. And this week I'm talking about the state of the movies and the state of TV and how they all get melded together in the Oscars, a huge event that looks like it's going to get smaller every year.

Here to explain what happened this year and what's going to happen in the future is Matt Bellany, the veteran Hollywood journalist from Puck. Matt is smart, and he's going to make you feel smart for listening in. You can hear our chat on channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

This is the chainsaw for bureaucracy.

Energizer E-squared lithium, the world's longest lasting AA battery and digital cameras.

This is Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the show about what happens when media and tech collide. And this week I'm talking to Katie Drummond, who runs Wired. She's found a way to breathe new life into that publication by covering news.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

Hey there, I'm Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the podcast about tech and media and the way they're colliding. And this week I'm talking about the state of the movies and the state of TV and how they all get melded together in the Oscars, a huge event that looks like it's going to get smaller every year.

Here to explain what happened this year and what's going to happen in the future is Matt Bellany, the veteran Hollywood journalist from Puck. Matt is smart, and he's going to make you feel smart for listening in. You can hear our chat on channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

That's This Week on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

Hey there, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, the show about what happens when tech and media collide. And this week, we're talking to Adam Mosseri, who runs Instagram and who also runs Threads. And he told me what Threads was originally going to be called.

This is Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the show about what happens when media and tech collide. And this week, I'm talking to Katie Drummond, who runs Wired. She's found a way to breathe new life into that publication by covering news.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

This is Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the show about what happens when media and tech collide. And this week I'm talking to Katie Drummond, who runs Wired. She's found a way to breathe new life into that publication by covering news.

Textagram, great name. You're making me regret telling you this. That's This Week on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

Hey there, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, the show about what happens when tech and media collide. And this week, we're talking to Adam Mosseri, who runs Instagram and who also runs Threads. And he told me what Threads was originally going to be called. I called it Textagram as a joke, which unfortunately stuck as a name for months before I managed to kill it.

Textagram, great name. You're making me regret telling you this. That's this week on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

Hey there, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, the show about what happens when tech and media collide. And this week, we're talking to Adam Mosseri, who runs Instagram and who also runs Threads. And he told me what Threads was originally going to be called. I called it Textagram as a joke, which unfortunately stuck as a name for months before I managed to kill it.

Hey there, I'm Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the podcast about tech and media and the way they're colliding. And this week I'm talking about the state of the movies and the state of TV and how they all get melded together in the Oscars, a huge event that looks like it's going to get smaller every year.

Here to explain what happened this year and what's going to happen in the future is Matt Bellany, the veteran Hollywood journalist from Puck. Matt is smart, and he's going to make you feel smart for listening in. You can hear our chat on channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

This is Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the show about what happens when media and tech collide. And this week I'm talking to Katie Drummond, who runs Wired. She's found a way to breathe new life into that publication by covering news. We started covering Doge, like several stories a day, every single day.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

Wir machen eine kulinarische Reise.

Hey there, I'm Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the podcast about tech and media and the way they're colliding. And this week I'm talking about the state of the movies and the state of TV and how they all get melded together in the Oscars, a huge event that looks like it's going to get smaller every year.

Here to explain what happened this year and what's going to happen in the future is Matt Bellany, the veteran Hollywood journalist from Puck. Matt is smart, and he's going to make you feel smart for listening in. You can hear our chat on channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Hey there, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, the show about what happens when tech and media collide. And this week, we're talking to Adam Mosseri, who runs Instagram and who also runs Threads. And he told me what Threads was originally going to be called. I called it Textagram as a joke, which unfortunately stuck as a name for months before I managed to kill it.

Textagram, great name. You're making me regret telling you this. That's This Week on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

Without being in love, right? I mean, you weren't physically.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

This is Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the show about what happens when media and tech collide. And this week, I'm talking to Katie Drummond, who runs Wired. She's found a way to breathe new life into that publication by covering news.

Hey there, I'm Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, the podcast about tech and media and the way they're colliding. And this week I'm talking about the state of the movies and the state of TV and how they all get melded together in the Oscars, a huge event that looks like it's going to get smaller every year.

Here to explain what happened this year and what's going to happen in the future is Matt Bellany, the veteran Hollywood journalist from Puck. Matt is smart, and he's going to make you feel smart for listening in. You can hear our chat on channels from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

Thank you.

Hey there, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, the show about what happens when tech and media collide. And this week, we're talking to Adam Mosseri, who runs Instagram and who also runs Threads. And he told me what Threads was originally going to be called.

You're progressive in one way, but you're still making that fucking backward story of seven dwarves living in a cave. What the fuck are you doing, man?

Rachel Zegler and Gal Gadot.

And it's working. That's on Channels, wherever you hear your favorite pods.

Hey, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, a show about media and tech and lots of other stuff. And this week I learned about how to make money in media and specifically how to do that in Washington, D.C. in 2025. My guest, Jake Sherman, the co-founder of Punchbowl News. That's the fast-growing, super-inside, the Beltway pub that covers Congress and Congress and nothing else.

That's this week on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.

Hey there, this is Peter Kafka. I'm the host of Channels, the show about what happens when tech and media collide. And this week, we're talking to Adam Mosseri, who runs Instagram and who also runs Threads. And he told me what Threads was originally going to be called.

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Yeah, well, actually, I was nursing a hangover in a small Colorado airport when I was just looking through Twitter and saw a report from Bloomberg that they were considering filing for bankruptcy. And it was at that point that, while I was hurtin', Waiting for my plane, I shared a story about a lunch that I had with my grandfather more than a decade ago at a Florida Hooters.

It was an annual tradition. I would fly down to Florida before the rest of my family, just a few days before Thanksgiving, so I would get to hang out with my grandfather a bit. He would pick me up at the airport. And we would then go out to lunch and chat about politics, chat about my soccer season, chat about changes to the Fox News primetime lineup. And this particular trip, I was 14 or 15.

This was when I was just beginning to question my sexuality. I was just beginning to realize that I was gay. I don't think I had quite admitted it to myself yet, but it was certainly top of mind. And then to walk into a Hooters, it was an experience. The Hooters waitress is not your average waitress. They are, objectively speaking, beautiful women. and they tend to be rather scantily clad.

They are extremely friendly, extremely welcoming, and all I can say is eating a meal at Hooters is unlike any dining experience I had ever had previously, and I can't quite compare it to anything I've done since. So we sat down for lunch. The meal was good, as I recall. We had chicken wings. Later on, my grandfather at one point gets up to use the restroom.

And I remember just sweating and feeling so uncomfortable. And then out of the corner of my eye, I see our waitress who was very tall, was very blonde, a caricature of the caricature of the Hooters waitress. And she slides into the booth across from me. And I wish I remember exactly what she said, but I know it was something along the lines of, you're perfect just the way you are, kid.

And it just meant the absolute world to me.

Yeah. I mean, who knows if it was how I held myself or how my voice quivered when I responded to her or how I never quite met her gaze or how I was just sweating my way through the lunch. But she could tell that I was not comfortable. And I don't know if that's because she actually clocked me as gay, but she... could tell that I was hurting in that moment, and she wanted to help.

And you shared this story while you were at the airport, hungover. I did. I really didn't think about it much. And then, of course, I get on the airplane. I don't have access to Wi-Fi. I land at LaGuardia some five hours later, and I think it was already over 100,000 likes.

Part of the response I anticipated. I thought that folks would be charmed by the story, would find it sweet and sentimental. The part of the response that I did not anticipate was the deluge of direct messages from queer people who described very similar dynamics, very similar experiences. I describe it in the piece as a baptism into manhood.

Time and again, I saw the exact same refrain, conversion therapy with a side of ranch. These young men who... didn't know what they were being brought into, being coaxed into the family sedan and driven to Hooters to ogle some breasts.

A lot of them were similar, but there was a great deal of diversity as well. I note in the piece, Mike Dare... grew up in Omaha, Nebraska, and his father would take him to Hooters quite regularly. Mike told me that he was a very flamboyant little boy. It was clear from an early age that he was queer. And this one particular meal was seared into his memory.

He recalled his dad asking two Hooters waitresses to take a photo with him, kissing him on the cheeks. And... As he recounts it to me, they look at him, can tell he's uncomfortable, and say, we think he'd prefer this instead. They gave him bunny ears. And then as they're walking away, one of them turns around to wink at him.

And as he describes it to me, from that moment forward, he viewed Hooters as his safe space. And I'm quoting him there. He said it was his quote-unquote safe space. After that dinner, he looked forward to going to Hooters.

Amazing. This one gentleman I spoke with shared how when he was just nine years old, his parents took him to a Hooters in Atlantic City. And as he expressed it to me, it was very obvious that he was gay. And his parents kept encouraging him to flirt with their waitress. In fact, they... pushed the waitress to flirt with him, again, a nine-year-old child.

And later in the meal, he excuses himself to use the restroom. The waitress finds him, kneels down and asks him if he's okay. He says, yes, she smiles. And as he puts it to me, it was one of the most important moments of his life. And he still lives in Atlantic City. And every time he passes that Hooters, he thinks back on it and reflects on that moment.

I spoke to a number of Hooters waitresses too who echoed all of these accounts. Lucy Wilkinson, who's quoted in the piece, who's been a server at Hooters for a number of years, said that she has witnessed this phenomenon many, many times to the extent that she now goes out of her way to comfort the queer kids that she sees being brought in by their family members.

Yeah, what I've learned in the past week or so is that there is a hell of a lot of love for Hooters out there, particularly from queer folks. And it's especially funny because I think if you just look at pop culture from Saturday Night Live to American Dad to Joe Rogan, the Hooters waitress is not presented well. She is depicted as a dim person.

I say in the piece, vacant-eyed succubus, a wannabe Stepford wife. And what I heard time and again from all of these queer people in my inbox was that perception is a slander as lazy as it is persistent. These women genuinely care, earnestly care about the folks who come into their restaurants and go out of their way to make everyone feel as comfortable and as welcome as possible, queer or not.