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Chapter 1: What is the context of the phone conversation with Daniel Kinahan?
This is Daniel Kinahan, King of Spin, a four-part Crime World special. Part four, The Fallout.
It's just to give you a chance to say what you have to say. And all I can say is that you'd be given a completely fair shout. Like, if you want to say something, like, say it.
I understand that. We're speaking from the business aspect, Ken. Really. Your publication is a bullshit publication, in my opinion, in the IMF group, in everything that they do, and they have their narrative and they have their agenda. So why am I going to get you a lot of subscribers, likes, sales, anything like that? That's where I'm feeling from, where I feel from it.
Because, really, look, let's call this day the day, Jack. At the moment, I understand the position that I'm in, I understand the hate campaign, the witch hunt, and I'm going to have to take the weeds through, whatever they want to do and say about me. At the end of the day, I can get this on American TV, English TV, anywhere. So what should I do for real, Ken?
We're speaking from the business aspect. And I'm not saying this in an arrogant or disrespectful way, you know? No, no. You know, if I engage with one reporter, you'll get to do... On the back of me, I can become a millionaire. Do you want to get a sheet of books with micro-talents on it?
green arms, I don't know the names, these are reporters, and take a load of money, pat themselves on the back, and basically have people at the star and gone out and given themselves awards for getting the old books. But there is no journalism. There is no investigation. At the time, only what the narrative is ran down the throat. That's how it is here.
Do you not want to change... Daniel, Daniel. Daniel, sorry, one second. Do you not want to change the narrative? Do you not just want to address what's been said? Like in the Dáil. In the High Court, man.
It's none of my business what people think of me. Because you know what? I know who I am. And what you think I am, that's who I am. And there's a lot of things you don't understand, I don't see either. I'm not saying you're stupid, you're... There's a lot of things happening. Ken, this approach to try and talk to Daniel Kinahan, have you ever tried this before?
Have you ever been in touch with him? Have you ever been on the phone to him?
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Chapter 2: How does Daniel Kinahan respond to media allegations?
And therefore you can't complain as such that you haven't been given a voice when you're being offered an opportunity to say what you have to say and you're not taking it. So he kind of says to you eventually, I'll get my lawyers to send you the statement.
Yes, eventually, and it took another day or two before the statement arrived. Actually, in the course of the conversation, he had said that he had a number of statements, but we got one of them eventually. It ended up coming to us very late on a Friday evening, I think maybe two days after that conversation actually happened. So I was starting to wonder whether I was going to get any statement.
And in the middle of it, you sort of try and change the conversation up a little bit. Of course, you know, we spoke about where Daniel Kinahan is at at this point, but where's the world at?
Yeah, so we're in the middle in Ireland in January 2021. We were in another of those terrible lockdowns had just been imposed on us after a brief few weeks at Christmas. COVID was off the charts in the country. Everything was closed down. So, yeah, we...
The conversation, I asked him actually what the situation was in Dubai and he was actually saying, you know, life is kind of going on as normal. I think he mentioned that they had to wear masks, all right, inside. But otherwise, he actually pointed out, I think, how important tourism was to the economy and stuff like that. What's the coronavirus like out in Dubai?
Everything over here is actually very, very good. You know, it's a little bit different because you're not dealing with a lot of different politicians with different agendas because they won't have to make the decision. So if anyone's told to wear a mask, you have to wear a mask.
Is it in lockdown at the moment?
They do a lockdown at the start, Ken, and then what's happened now is they can't afford to do a lockdown here because the economy will cut them because of some tourism, you know? Okay. Everything's like normal here. Restaurants, everything's good. You have to wear a mask. That's social distancing.
But ultimately, you're really looking for his thoughts on the Panorama documentary. So what did you know about what was going to appear on that show?
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Chapter 3: What are the implications of the Panorama documentary on Kinahan's reputation?
How did he become involved in setting up Britain's biggest ever bout, the fight between Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua to become the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world? So it lays it right in the centre of Kinahan is at the heart of all of this.
Literally. Now, Ken, you finally get the statement and just read it out in full. Let's see what he had to say.
So it's lengthy enough. This was issued by his UK, London-based solicitor at the time. A public statement on behalf of Mr. Daniel Kinahan in response to media allegations. It starts with a headline actually, a lie repeated 100 times is still a lie. in quotes, and then it goes on.
A spokesperson for Mr. Kinahan said, Daniel is a 43-year-old family man, a father to five beautiful children, and privileged to be the stepfather to three wonderful daughters. He's a proud Irishman. He's never been convicted of a crime, not just in Ireland, but in any jurisdiction worldwide.
This statement is made in response to false and damaging allegations repeated by various commentators and media outlets that he is the leader of an Irish-based international organised crime gang. These claims are wholly untrue and unsupported by any evidence. The allegations in the media typically refer to various criminal proceedings.
wholly unconnected to Daniel and are often based on the testimony or comments of convicted criminals. Daniel wishes to make it absolutely clear that he has no involvement whatsoever in any criminal organisations or undertakings.
Daniel is the victim of an orchestrated campaign that is targeting him with the deliberate intention to mislead the public and to damage the successful and legitimate career he has built up over 15 years in international boxing.
His reputation as a legitimate and respected businessman is being smeared and destroyed by people with a dishonest agenda and a complicit media pursuing a false narrative that serves that agenda. The relentless publication of such serious falsehoods not only places Daniel's life in danger, but the lives of his family also. It is irresponsible and reckless journalism of the worst kind.
Daniel has been subjected to a trial by the media in which there is no due process or objective examination of the facts. The opinion of Agarda expressed during court proceedings unconnected to Daniel is routinely presented as fact, absent of scrutiny and context. The prejudicial reporting against him...
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Chapter 4: How do law enforcement agencies collaborate against the Kinahan cartel?
I think he's rattled, but he's also, he's very much trying to be on the front foot as well. Like he, within that statement, a lot of things are addressed, aren't they? Like, I mean, he's, he addresses the fact, you know, without kind of stating it properly,
bluntly that he has you know his family name has been mentioned in the superior courts in Ireland and he speaks a lot about I think legitimate businessman has used a few times in it and he speaks strongly about the respect he says he has within the boxing world and he's pointing out very strongly that he has no criminal convictions anywhere and tellingly I suppose because of
You know what's facing him here in the next few months in terms of him being probably extradited back into face trial in the special criminal court. And it's quite topical now, even though that was said so many years ago.
He is saying that he doesn't think he can get a fair trial here, or in fact anywhere in the world, because of the media coverage, which he slams a number of times in a statement as well. It repeats a number of his defences. Like Nicola saying there, you know, a different PR firm might have advised him differently.
And there would have been one way to go, would have been, I was mixed up in a lot of stuff in my youth, but I've put all that behind. And, you know, I've never got any serious convictions. I'm not saying I'm an angel, but that's all in my past. That would have been one way to go. He goes the other way, which is that I'm a totally and utterly innocent man who is the victim of this campaign.
And he hits a number of things.
the no convictions which you say he addresses the the statements in during the court case he hits at that that obviously is a sore point for him he knows that's going to be repeated again and again and yeah he he definitely tries to vindicate himself totally and the fair trial thing is interesting because we are going to hear about that again i would imagine for sure without a doubt
Yeah, and of course in your phone call to him, you had actually tried to get an interview, but he's not going to give you that. No. He just ultimately gives you the statement. He doesn't really want to engage with the Irish media.
There was kind of a, you know, a promise of an interview as such, depending, let's see how this goes and stuff like that. But the interview was never to be. No.
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Chapter 5: What was revealed during the extraordinary press conference at Dublin City Hall?
And obviously he was pushing this narrative of no convictions that gave him the backing of the kind of the governance bodies. And people were a little bit in a sort of a difficult position now.
Yeah, there was definitely two types. There was people who he was bringing money in that wouldn't have existed otherwise. There was definitely the people who were just hoping... Had got tied up maybe.
Yes, and were just hoping it would go away. Now days after the documentary aired, the BBC Panorama team were warned by the PSNI of threats against them. by criminal elements in Northern Ireland and the head of current affairs at the time in BBC Joe Carr said the broadcaster would not be deterred from its work by threats from criminals.
He stated that the BBC places the utmost priority on the safety of our teams whose journalism plays a vital role in a free society. It's despicable and intolerable if thugs think they can muzzle a free press through intimidation. This really only served to, you know, ground the story further in criminality and sort of brought it all back up. Oh, yeah.
As we know as news people, you know, you give a story a new top and a tail and you can go again.
Oh, yeah. Probably got as much publicity as the first round. And then, of course, your old pal Billy Joe Saunders gets in touch with you.
Yeah, this is a very weird one. So, you know, Billy Joe Saunders had kept in contact with me over the years. He actually was the one who tipped me off to the existence of Blood Feud, the J Spades rap song to various other things. He would sometimes tag me in tweets. But this particular few days after this, this panorama was... was aired.
It was a Sunday afternoon, about ten to three, and a text landed into my private messages. And it was from Billy Joe Saunders, who, of course, was the former WBO middleweight champion of the world, bestest friend of Tyson Fury and one of the biggest choir masters for Daniel Kinahan over the years. Now, he was training at the time for the biggest fight of his life.
And it was a 50 million euro purse. But he seemed to have a lot of time on his hands. So the text read, would you like to fly over to see Daniel Kinahan face to face interview or I could set up a Zoom call or I could even set you on a date as a Valentine's Day is just around the corner. And two seconds later, a second text arrived saying serious offer.
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Chapter 6: What are the reactions from boxing authorities regarding Kinahan's involvement?
This is how it read. I've tried my best to ignore the allegations that are constantly made about me. I've dedicated myself to my work in boxing for over 15 years. I've stated from the bottom and... I was born and raised in Dublin. in a deprived area with serious levels of poverty, of crime, of underinvestment.
People like me from there aren't expected to do anything with their lives other than serve the middle and upper classes. Boxing is a working class sport for which I've had a lifelong love and passion. I loved the sport of boxing, but didn't love how business was done. Many boxers have similar backgrounds to me.
I got into boxing to make sure that boxers get fairly rewarded and not taken advantage of. The boxers put their lives on the line. It's my mission to ensure that the boxers are financially secure when they finish boxing and healthy too. Let's not forget the money in boxing is put there one way or another by the fans, sponsors and TV companies, not by me or anyone else.
And they put it there to watch the fighters. The fighters deserve their fair share. I firmly believe that my success has led to an increase in the campaign against me. Pretty much anything can be said about me or inferred about me, and it goes unchallenged and is sadly believed. Last week, it was inferred that I had threatened a reporter.
Let me be clear on this point before I address the other allegations against me. I have full respect for journalism. I have worked with journalists and I value their role. Journalists should always be free to do their job, free from any threat or harassment. I never... Thank you very much.
They refused to publish the statement I made in advance of the programme or even questioned the fundamental claim that an Irish court accepted. That Irish court is a special criminal court, a court with no jury and which accepts the word of police officers without question. It's criticised by both the UN and Amnesty International.
This latest report follows a long pattern of throwing innuendo and baseless accusations at me, hoping that some may stick. Thank you. There is no evidence or proof against me. I have said that repeatedly. I have no criminal record anywhere in the world. Sections of the media ask that I disprove a negative. This is impossible, but it shows what I'm up against.
People need to ask themselves, if he has done the things he has been accused of, why has he not been arrested and charged? Why does a police organisation anywhere in the world not have this information and evidence that some sections of the media would have you believe actually exists? Why is there only a trial by media and not a criminal trial? There's a simple answer to this.
That answer is because there is no evidence. It's because it's not true. I'm blessed with an amazing family. I'm blessed to work in boxing at the highest level, having organized some of the biggest fights in boxing previously and in the future. I will continue working every day to bring out the best in and look after the boxers I'm lucky enough to work with.
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Chapter 7: How does the legal situation evolve for Daniel Kinahan and the cartel?
you know, being from Dublin. And he says he's proud of that. We're going to just hear that clip.
Would you feel ever safe coming back here?
Safe coming back to Ireland?
Yeah.
If I go back to Ireland, they're going to give me lights and crew. because I've been done in a court of public opinion. And now the narrative is to try and go to the UK, then America, and then create that on the monster, or maybe you want to leave me here.
Daniel, what do you think would give you life here? Like, what? For what? Sorry? What would you get life for in Ireland, like?
I'm sure they'd say that I'd try to kill this person, that person, that person, this person. I'm the biggest truck baron in the whole of the world, and I'm sure they'll have about 50,000 trains, because how can they build you up like this? Because either way, you're going mad than this. Build truckers up, give them a nickname, make it fancy, build all the stories.
Then he gets himself killed, or gets killed, or whatever, and then signs on to build somebody else up. I'm not saying you, per se, I'm just saying the general.
Okay, so he's saying he would love to come back to his country, but that he's back to the witch hunt again. He's talking about himself in the third person, which I always find a bit sinister when people do that.
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Chapter 8: What future challenges does Daniel Kinahan face in the boxing world?
Yeah, it becomes more and more damaging. Now we're going to jump back a little bit because as we enter 2022 in the aftermath of Panorama, the main man had yet to talk, but he does find, I think his Scottish version of you, romance with you for a while. He does want to give you the interview, but if you could actually... you know, unshackle yourself from your actual job and go out on your own.
He'd give it to you because he thinks you're a good guy. But actually, he finds James English, who's a podcaster, a Scottish podcaster, and who has been interviewing quite a few of the MTK boxers. He does these big, long chats with them about their childhood, up to their careers, et cetera, et cetera. And he's the one who's let in.
So James English travels to Dubai and in an office out there, he interviews Daniel Kinahan. We're just going to have a little listen to a clip that we still have, which was actually put out as a trailer for the... For me...
The media manipulates everyone. They create the reality for people for the future. For what they want to think, how they see, what they eat, what they buy. If I'm this bad person, look at the things they wrote about me. These papers wrote me. I supplied these guns to these rebel kids in Africa. I had a billion dollars worth of cocaine, went through America. Come on.
If this really happened in America, I'd be in America now. I grew up the way I grew up. And like I said, I'm not going to say I was an angel, but I'm proud of where I was brought up. And I'm proud of how I was brought up. And what I've turned things into now, I want to just turn everything into a positive and I want to help people too.
Okay. So the full interview, which you're told is more than three hours long. Again, Mr. Kinnan does not like being edited or clipped in his statements. Anyway, it's due to go out. I think actually the date it's set for release is St. Patrick's Day because he's a proud Irishman, Daniel. And, you know, there's a lot of kind of build up to this.
There's millions of people tuning in to see the trailer. And all of a sudden, It's pulled due to what is described as legal restrictions. In actual fact, James English describes it in a short video on his YouTube site as an attack on the freedom of speech. We never actually get to the bottom of what occurs on that. But I imagine in three hours of loaded conversation, you could certainly...
commit a few libels, could you not? Well, he certainly has a good go at Barry McGuigan, for example.
Yeah, and many others, I'm sure. And Barry McGuigan would have a good case, you would imagine. But we don't know.
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