LEMON DROP | Breaking the System: Policing in America
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Who are the authors of Cop Cop and why are they credible to talk about policing?
Welcome, everybody, to a very special edition of The Don Lemon Show. I have a question for you. Who watches The Watchmen? Who watches The Watchmen? Who polices the police? Who are the police of the police? In New York City, it is the CCRB. It's the Civilian Complaint Review Board. You may have heard about it, even if you don't live in New York City. It is an independent agency that investigates allegations of misconduct by members of the NYPD. My guest today spent eight years as senior investigators for the CCRB and... My oh, my. Do they have some stories? And I can't wait to hear them speak and also speak about some not only the problems, but possible solutions as well. Greg Finch is here and Mac Muir as well.
They're the authors of Cop Cop Breaking the Fixed System of American Policing. Gentlemen, thank you for joining.
Thanks so much. Thanks for having us.
OK, so listen, I understand that you interviewed, I think, well over 10, well over a thousand police officers, hundreds of victims of misconduct in the process of writing this book. So let's start with your analysis. You're sort of, you know, 30,000 feet or 10,000 feet or whatever. What is wrong with policing in America?
Well, there are a lot of things wrong with policing in America right now. But one of the purposes of our book is to look at this kind of like we would if you ask, what's wrong with America right now? And the answer is going to be different from Idaho to Los Angeles to New York to Dallas. And the same is true in policing. Policing is more of a regional and hyperlocal phenomenon that I think we give it credit for. When we've had these mass protest movements, we've had incredible national backlash to horrible incidents of policing. But we've seen on the inside how regional it is and how important it is to know the logistics of your own police department, how it might be overseen on a local level. And we try to give you the tools to do that because we think it's really possible.
Yeah. Greg, you want to weigh in on that?
Yeah. The more time that we spent with these cases with the victims of misconduct, the more the picture developed that the industry is in a crisis. Policing is in a crisis. It's deeply affecting both the officers that are doing the work and also the communities that they police. And we hopefully identify solutions that can draw these communities closer together. There was just an article in the Times Magazine this week about how more officers die every year from suicides than actually in the line of duty. One of our goals is to educate the public and share what we've learned about how this incredibly complicated institution actually works on the ground.
Do you think, I mean, you said, I read that you interviewed a thousand police officers and hundreds of victims of misconduct in the process of doing this, but you work for the CCRB in New York City. Do you think that that is a fair indication of what is happening in most police departments around the country? Because people may say New York City, I mean, that is a different animal. You can't judge every police department by New York City.
Absolutely. First, New York City is the Vatican City of policing. It is the place from which a lot of policing policy around the country is shaped. And second, we've had the privilege of working with folks across the country who work both in law enforcement and law enforcement oversight. So I spent the last couple of years working as the executive director of the Police Oversight Agency in Oakland, California. I've been very involved on the national scene with different issues from region to region, state to state. So we've got a lot of perspective on that. I know it's a New York centric story because that's where we were working. But you can certainly connect the dots and see how the NYPD is influencing a lot of places, both culturally and in policy.
So you had some unique aspects or unique insight and access into the inner workings of police oversight. Talk to me about investigating police and misconduct.
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Chapters
4 chapters
1
Who are the authors of Cop Cop and why are they credible to talk about policing?
0:13–6:36
2
What big-picture problems in American policing do the authors identify?
6:36–20:22
3
How did working at the CCRB shape the authors’ view of the 'blue wall of silence'?
20:22–27:14
4
Why do the authors trace NYPD culture to Irish immigrant roots and what does that explain?
27:14–35:44
Speakers
3 identifiedMore from The Don Lemon Show
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