Lemon LIVE at 5 | Are We Facing a Constitutional Crisis & What Comes Next? - February 11th, 2025
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Are we already in a constitutional crisis over presidential defiance of courts?
Bye.
A very serious question here, and I'm not being hyperbolic. My question is, is our democracy dead or is it on the brink of dying? Are we already in a constitutional crisis? You guys know that I've been concerned about it. I think that we are in the midst of a constitutional crisis. And if it continues... Along as it is going with defying federal judges' orders, I don't know if there's any turning back. So good evening, everyone. Welcome to the Don Lemon Show, Lemon Live at 5. We have so much to discuss today, but we need to start with the slow death of the American constitutional order. That's where we're going to begin. Quoting a passage... From the New York Times, it says, and I quote, there is no universally accepted definition of a constitutional crisis, but legal scholars agree about some of its characteristics.
It is generally the product of presidential defiance of laws and judicial rulings. It is not binary. It is a slope, not a switch. It can be cumulative, and once one starts, it can get much worse. It can also be obvious. said Erwin Chemerinsky, dean of the law school at the University of California, Berkeley. Here's what the dean says. We are in the midst of a constitutional crisis right now. That's what he said on Friday to the New York Times. There have been so many unconstitutional and illegal actions in the first 18 days of the Trump presidency. We never have seen anything like this. So as we bring in the professor, make sure you hit the like, make sure you hit the thumbs up, make sure you subscribe.
Because it keeps us reporting independently and we can get people like Erwin Murinsky on. He is an American legal scholar and a dean of the UC Berkeley School of Law. Thank you, Professor, for joining us. You already said I can call you Erwin, right? Yes. Thank you. So you said, and I quote, we are in the midst of a constitutional crisis right now. Explain that. We've never had a president so systematically violate the law as we've seen in the first three weeks of the Trump presidency. The president has issued so many executive orders that are blatantly inconsistent with the Constitution and federal statutes. And the question is, will we continue to be a nation under the rule of law where no person, not even the president, is above the law?
So then what do we do? Because you also reeled off a list of things in this New York Times article that you believe that the how the the president and the administration, how they have defied judges orders already and that they are in opposition to the Constitution. What we do is we hope that there will be challenges in court to all of the illegal and unconstitutional actions. We have to hope that the courts will continue to issue injunctions against them. And then the question is, will President Trump, like virtually every other president in history, obey court orders? Or will he for the first time ever precedent an open defiance of the courts? And if that happens, then we are truly in an unprecedented constitutional crisis.
This is what you ticked off, examples of what President Trump's lawless conduct is that you believe, what you call lawless conduct. Revoking birthright citizenship, correct? Freezing federal spending. Shutting down an agency. Removing leaders of other agencies. Firing government employees subject to civil service protections and threatening to deport people based on their political views. But that is just a partial list of the things that you deem to be illegal acts that create a constitutional crisis, correct? That's right. And on Sunday, Vice President J.D. Vance said that the president doesn't have to obey court orders when the president is taking, quote, legitimate acts. According to Vice President Vance, it's for the president to decide what's legitimate or illegitimate.
Yesterday, a federal district court in Rhode Island found that the Trump administration was violating the court's order to lift the freeze that it put on federal money. This is, to me, the most serious threat to our constitutional order.
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Chapters
6 chapters
1
Are we already in a constitutional crisis over presidential defiance of courts?
0:00–9:43
2
What examples of allegedly unlawful executive actions does Dean Chemerinsky cite?
9:43–16:49
3
Can the president lawfully refuse to follow federal court orders?
16:49–31:18
4
What legal remedies exist if the administration defies a judge's injunction?
31:18–39:23
5
Could the Supreme Court or Chief Justice Roberts stop executive defiance?
39:23–44:06
6
What role should citizens and Congress play to defend the rule of law?
44:06–1:12:38