Oprah Winfrey
Appearances
Behind the Bastards
Bonus: The Bastards of Oprah
Susan, when you were there, did he, I heard that he actually invites medical doctors from around the world to come up and witness him do these things. Is that correct?
Behind the Bastards
Bonus: The Bastards of Oprah
Dr. Jeffrey Rediger traveled to Brazil also to see John of God's work firsthand. Explain, if you can, the medical risks of surgery without anesthesia or proper sterilization. It doesn't look like he's, like, sterilizing the knife or the probe.
Behind the Bastards
Bonus: The Bastards of Oprah
So have people followed up with these people who've gone through these procedures? Maybe infections came later.
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
Your One Big Break with Clevr Blends’ Hannah Mendoza
Matcha super latte and with a chai super latte and my new favorite...
Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
Your One Big Break with Clevr Blends’ Hannah Mendoza
Happy holidays.
Revisionist History
The Joe Rogan Intervention
You certainly must have had some conversations with Harry about it and have your own suspicions as to why they didn't want to make Archie.
Revisionist History
The Joe Rogan Intervention
What are those thoughts? Why do you think that is? Do you think it's because of his race? And I know that's a loaded question, but... But I can give you an honest answer.
Revisionist History
The Joe Rogan Intervention
What? And... Who is having that conversation with you?
Revisionist History
The Joe Rogan Intervention
There's a conversation with you? With Harry. About how dark your baby is going to be?
Revisionist History
The Joe Rogan Intervention
And you're not going to tell me who had the conversation?
Revisionist History
The Joe Rogan Intervention
Because they were concerned that if you were too brown, that that would be a problem. Are you saying that?
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
Maria Shriver: Life-Changing Lessons on Believing You’re Enough, Forgiveness & Creating Your Best Life Now! (Pt 1)
Jamie's Book Worthy is a must read. It is going to inspire you, empower you, give you the hope that you need and the kick in the rear end that you deserve. Jamie's Book Worthy is incredible.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
Maria Shriver: Life-Changing Lessons on Believing You’re Enough, Forgiveness & Creating Your Best Life Now! (Pt 1)
Her show is unlike any I've ever done. A revelation. When you listen, it feels like a hug, but your brain and your spirit and your heart is like, wow.
The Jamie Kern Lima Show
Maria Shriver: Life-Changing Lessons on Believing You’re Enough, Forgiveness & Creating Your Best Life Now! (Pt 1)
Jamie Kern Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life. Jamie Kern Lima.
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Why "The Let Them Theory" is Terrible Advice For Women, Plus Celebs and the Dangers of Ozempic
let them is when you release control. Oh my goodness, it's so freeing. Yes. Yes. You don't actually think about what other people think when you're proud of yourself because you know the truth. That is so powerful. Other people never block your way. Only you can do that.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
We'll be right back with more on my conversation with Dr. Vivek Murthy. I'm talking with Dr. Vivek Murthy about millions of Americans who are struggling with loneliness. So I think what you're saying, Elaine, this is going to call for you to step out of your box a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Because are you introverted too, like we are?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
I am, but I'm also like you where it can appear that I'm extroverted, but I'm really not. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Yeah. So it's going to take stepping out of your box a little bit and reaching out and deciding. Don't you think it's too about what do you want your... lack of loneliness to feel like? What do you want your engagement to feel like? What do you really see yourself doing? Having a vision for what that might look like, and then you, as smart as you are, taking the steps to make that happen.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
I know you can do that. Thank you. And also not be embarrassed by the question of what are you doing New Year's Eve? You know, I haven't decided yet. Or I may just stay at home or whatever your answer is to honor that and make it a true thing for you, I think, because for so many years I was embarrassed with that. I remember being in Baltimore, Elaine, years ago when I was a young reporter.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
And people were asking me that question. I felt so bad. So come midnight, I was with no one. I ended up calling. This is when we had landlines. I was calling the operator to say, happy new year. I was calling the fire department and the police department. Happy new year. I love that. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm going to channel you. So thank you so much to both of you. Thank you so much.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
As we face this new year, let's tap into this undercurrent of loneliness that many people are feeling.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
I read research that shows that Gen Z, which was so surprising to me, This generation right now is the loneliest. The younger people are grappling with this also. Why do you think?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
New Year's Eve is one of those holidays that I personally dread because people are in couples.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Which means a lot, which means that's why a lot of things get lost. The context gets lost in the text. Amber is 29 years old, maybe a smidge older than Gen Z and a social media marketer from California. Amber, I hear you're living by yourself, right? For the very first time. And you describe yourself as a big time extrovert. So what does loneliness feel like for you?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
And it is because, is it because of what we were sharing earlier, where you were sharing with us, is that extroverts experience loneliness more intensely?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
I'll share one of my loneliest New Year's Eves. Come midnight, I was with no one. I was calling the operator to say, happy new year. If you're feeling isolated, lonely, or not a part of the world, Dr. Murthy's on a mission to restore human connection.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
I like getting together on Valentine's Day because love isn't just for lovers. That's right. Yes. And what was your main question, though, you wanted to ask Dr. Murthy?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
You know, I would recommend there's a book that's been so helpful to me with accepting and embracing solitude. It's Eckhart Tolle's book called Stillness Speaks. I was going to tell you, you should get that book, but you know what? I'll get your address from my producers and I'll send it to you. And that book is always by my bedside table.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
And I just read like a little passage and it allows me to like go in and and inside and embrace the stillness in ways that are more mindful. So I will get that to you. Stillness speaks. And you look so beautiful. Thank you for joining us. I mean, my God, you got up and did your makeup. It's gorgeous.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Thank you, Amber. Devlin works for the government in Washington, D.C. Devlin, I hear that you're experiencing a different kind of loneliness. Tell us what's going on with you.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
So everybody, thanks for joining us on this podcast. So we're posting this on New Year's Eve, and I know a lot of people love this holiday. And for other people, it can be a really challenging time. It brings up a lot of feelings, I know, of expectations and also regrets. And so I'm so delighted to have with me today the U.S. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy. is here. He came to my tea house. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Yeah, a lot of people feel completely unanchored. I remember when Gail lost her mother. The night her mother died, she called me and said, I lost my anchor today. So you feel unanchored.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
I always think of it this way, Devlin, too. I know this, I have experiences because I've had 21 dogs and watched each of them pass in their life. their journey to wherever we go when we leave this earthly plane. And they've taught me a lot about living and dying, watching my animals. And I can feel that some of them have little souls and some have had bigger souls.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
and, you know, a bigger imprint on my life. And I feel this for all the people who I have loved who've gone, that I now have angels I can call by name. I feel the presence of Maya Angelou, Sidney Poitier, now Quincy Jones, my own father and mother. I feel the essence and spirit of them in ways that I could not tap into when they were in the physical body.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
And so when you were saying, Devlin, that you wanted people here, wanted your parents here for the joyous times to be able to share wonderful moments, I believe that they are here. They are as much here as they've ever been.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
And they are smiling on you in those joyous moments in ways that if you open the aperture of your heart space to allow yourself to feel the spirit of them, you can feel their presence in ways that you could not when they were in the density of the flesh. I believe that they are right here with you now.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
And not only are you speaking their names to people on a daily basis, but now you're on this podcast reaching millions of people speaking their names.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
That's so meaningful to me. Thank you so much. And what was your mother's name? What was your father's name?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much, Devlin. We'll be back in a moment with Dr. Vivek Murthy.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
I'm just happy to have you talk about this because you've been telling us for the past four years that there is a loneliness epidemic in this country. And I think that song, all the lonely people, where do they all come from? I think it's
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
We're back with Dr. Vivek Murthy, and we're talking about loneliness. Karina, a mother of two, runs a daycare in New York State, and I hear that you're on a mission to end loneliness. You and Dr. Vivek need to get together, okay? Tell us what you're up to.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
And so you have experienced what Vivek talks about in his book, the healing power of connection through community. You have experienced that yourself, bringing people together. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Can I ask you this? Did you do this specifically to do whatever you could to eliminate loneliness in the people that you were seeing around you?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
You're doing exactly what he says in the book that we all need to do. And you've already done it. You've reached out. You've made the connections. You understand the healing power of that.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Yeah. Thank you so much. Thanks for the work that you're doing, continued success and bringing people together in ways that make them feel more connected. Thank you so much, Karina. Thanks so much, Karina. Thank you both. Dr. Murthy, so you're going to be leaving your post soon. And there's so many health issues that we need to address in America.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
What would be your specific parting prescription for us now? Thank you so much for listening. Back in a moment. Thank you all for making the time to be with us. I'm with Dr. Vivek Murthy.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Were people lonely 10 years ago too? Absolutely. As lonely as they are now?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
I love this so much. I think relationships, purpose, and service, and particularly, I have found that when you take whatever job it is you do in life, whatever you think is your career, whatever you think is your calling, and you flip the paradigm to one of service, that I'm going to use my talent, I'm going to use my gifts, I'm going to use...
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Whatever it is I am skilled to do in life in service to something that is greater than myself, everything changes for you. And that leads to more purpose in your life and to better relationships in your life. So I think it all starts with how do I use my life in service to something bigger than myself.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Well, thank you for Together, for The Healing Power of Human Connection in a Sometimes Lonely World. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Oprah. Dr. Murthy's book is called Together, The Healing Power of Human Connection in a Sometimes Lonely World. Thank you for listening and watching on YouTube.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
You can subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
That is so surprising to me because it seems to me that young people are constantly, consistently on their phones talking to somebody or texting with someone. So how could you be lonely if you're in constant contact?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
So it's the quality of the relationships, not the quantity. So you can have... A million followers, no real connection with any of them. And when they're sleeping or not texting you or whatever, posting with you, you feel a void.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
So if you don't have that in your life... uh relationship a relationship or relationships where you can take the mask down so you can you know not smile when you don't want to and all that stuff you you uh risk being having this feeling of loneliness that's right that's right so it's the quality of the relationships okay And you suggest we also embraced solitude. I embraced that a long time ago.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
And solitude is actually, I have to say, it's actually my happiest place. And when we're not podcasting in this room, this is one of the places I come to be with myself. So explain the difference between loneliness and isolation, because I spend a lot of time alone and I love it. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Um... Well, if Stedman's not here, who travels a lot, I am alone all day. All day.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
And would you consider... With Sadie, the dog. So I don't consider that actually being alone. I feel like Sadie is a person with fur. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Nope, not at all. And in fact... Don't feel bored. I mean, many times Gail will call me and say, what are you doing, sitting with your thoughts? Because many times I'll say, oh, I'm just being with my thoughts. And she'd go, what are you doing, sitting with your thoughts? Yeah, as a matter of fact, I am. Yeah. I don't feel like the need to have to talk to anybody or do anything or prove anything.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
But that is because I am basically an introvert and I refuel myself to go out into the world and act like an extrovert through those moments of solitude.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Hi, everybody, and thank you for joining me on the Oprah Podcast. It was just about a year ago when the Sesame Street character Elmo posted a question on social media. In just nine words, he unleashed a flood of feelings for millions of people. He wrote, Elmo is just checking in. How's everybody doing? Well, that post was viewed over 220 million times.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Hmm. I feel like giving yourself that time to be with yourself is an opportunity to re-engage, refuel, restore. And I think a lot of people have anxiety when they are forced to have any kind of solitude at all. Have you experienced that?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Any kind of solitude other than sitting on the toilet makes people feel like, I need to be doing something.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Oh, good job you're doing. Good job you're doing. Good job you're doing. Well, we heard a lot from people who I think were really brave to share their sense of loneliness because I think it's one of those things, too, that people carry shame about being able to say out loud that they are lonely. So, Elaine, we applaud you. She's a business owner who's single with no kids in New York City.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
And you say, hi, welcome. You say your singleness now you feel more than ever. Why is that?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Yeah. Thank you to both of you for taking the time to talk about this important topic. I'd say it's because I'm single. I live alone in an apartment by myself. Most of my friends are now married. They've moved outside of the city. to the suburbs. They have young kids, very busy schedules, hectic schedules, shuttling their kids all over the place.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
And that feels like it's left a hole in my life in terms of those social connections. And I live alone in an apartment building with millions of people right outside the door. And yet I can feel so isolated a lot. And is it this time of the year that you feel even more so? Absolutely.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
New Year's Eve is one of those holidays that I personally dread because people are in couples and the ball drops and you're supposed to be with your significant other and it is so... Depressing, really.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
You know what? I understand because I remember when I was younger working as a young reporter in Baltimore and everybody would say, what are you going to do your New Year's Eve? What are you doing New Year's Eve?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
And that question that people still ask a lot creates a lot of anxiety and embarrassment because if you don't have an answer for what are you going to do New Year's Eve, you feel left out is what you're saying.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Absolutely. And you nailed it, the term embarrassed. I'm embarrassed to share that. I then feel very self-conscious, like what's wrong with me? I need to figure something out because things are not turning out the way that I want them to turn out. And it seems like it has for many of my friends in my social circle.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
And I remember thinking, wow, Elmo has revealed for us that a lot of people are not okay. Today, we're talking about a challenging human emotion, loneliness.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Yeah, Dr. Murthy, I was just wondering if you had any insight given someone in my situation, if I should be putting my energy into reconnecting with old friends or if I really should be trying to build new relationships. People that are in more of a similar stage of life, I guess I would say.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Vivek Murthy
Well, he wrote together the healing power of human connection in a sometimes lonely world.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
This episode of the Oprah podcast is brought to you by Booking.com. Listing your vacation rental on Booking.com opens the door to more guests. Booking.com is one of the most downloaded travel apps in the world that makes it the place to list your vacation rentals if you want to earn more with consistent bookings, reach new markets, and turn hosting into a steady income.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Well, so on New Year's Day of 2023, two-time Oscar-nominated actor Jeremy Renner was pronounced dead. After a harrowing accident at his home in Lake Tahoe, Jeremy joins us from the set of his hit show, Mayor of Kingstown. Jeremy, I'm so glad to see that you made it because I remember hearing that that day and feeling, oh, I can't believe that that had happened to you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
So you've been listening to us. Thanks for joining us. What happened on that snowy day in Lake Tahoe? That's a lot to ask.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
I did more than 20 episodes of The Oprah Winfrey Show talking with people who had died and come back to life to tell a story of an otherworldly experience.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
So what happened after that?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Could you move and did you have a sense of awareness?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Oh, it's a real thing. I've been talking about it for 30 years. It's a real thing. And I know now you've written a memoir called My Next Breath, perfect title, based upon what you've described. On page 75, you describe a part of your experience like this. I could see my lifetime... I could see everything all at once. It could have been for 10 seconds. It could have been for five minutes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
It could have been forever. Who knows how long. In that death, there was no time, no time at all. Yet it was also all time and forever. What were you seeing? And more importantly, what were you feeling?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Did you have any spiritual beliefs before? Did you have any?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
I was deeply impacted by every time I heard these stories. And over the years, I noticed that there were so many similarities in their stories that... It actually got me wondering, there must be something to this, right? So I'm excited to welcome Dr. Bruce Grayson to the Tea House.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Wow. Love is the only thing you take with you when you die. The only thing. The only thing. So I read in an interview where you said that this incident muted all the white noise in your life. What does that mean?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Well, as you've been listening to us, Jeremy, here with me is Dr. Grayson, who's been studying near-death experiences. a scientist for 45 years. So when you were saying in the beginning, you didn't even know there was anything to this. He's been studying it for 45 years and has talked to hundreds and hundreds of people in the field.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Yes, an affirmation. Confirmation and affirmation.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
I also wanted to ask you this. You were just saying that you realize what matters and what doesn't matter and that, you know, bad reviews or whatever. And, you know, I just consider how, you know, devastating... and demolishing to your physical body, your eyeball is out and your ribs are out, that you were able to put yourself back together and physically speak and physically move?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
How has this experience affected your acting?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Dr. Bruce Grayson is a psychiatrist, professor emeritus at the University of Virginia, and one of the world's foremost experts on near-death experiences, also known as NDEs. For nearly 50 years, Dr. Grayson's pioneering research has explored the depths of our relationship with death, life, and our understanding of consciousness.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
I think that's a common reaction, isn't it, Dr. Grayson? It certainly is. Everybody who goes through this, they come back and the priorities for living have shifted.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
What has been the reaction from your friends, your loved ones, colleagues with this new look at life?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Over the past 25 years, they've helped more than 1.8 billion vacation rental guests find places to stay. So why not help them find yours? You can manage your bookings and have control over your property's calendar and finances. It's hosting on your terms. The best part? Getting started is super easy.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
In 1981, he co-founded INS, the International Association for Near-Death Studies, a group dedicated to research of this phenomena. He's identified many universal experiences that surfaced through countless stories from people who were pronounced dead and came back to life.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
I saw your post of all the medical people who saved you. That is a lot of people. That's a team. You had an army going to war for you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Yeah. Well, I can't wait till your book comes out. I want to tell everyone that Jeremy's memoir, My Next Breath, and we see why it's called that, is available on April 29th. And I know all of the people who love and support you, your viewers and fans throughout the world, are looking forward to reading more about your story, Jeremy. Thank you for taking time out for filming.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Mayor of Kingston today to be with us. Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Well, I mean, I think for him to discover that. This has been happening to many, many, many people. In two-thirds of the cases you study, people say that they met people from the other side. I'm wondering, because all these years, having interviewed certainly not as many people as you have, but interviewed a lot of people, it feels like the NDE is specifically designed for you. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Some people experience what they've done to other people. Other people experience what people have done to them. I mean, it feels like there are commonalities, but there are also specifics.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
And for everybody, that's different.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Thanks for being here with us. After this message, we're going to hear from more people who were pronounced dead and then came back to life. You won't want to miss what they say about what happened in between. I think it's so fascinating how so many people have a similar experience. Don't you? Stay with us.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
This episode of the Oprah Podcast is sponsored in part by Alloy Women's Health. Are you confused about menopause and perimenopause? Alloy has all the answers and experts you need to feel like yourself again.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
With Alloy, you get safe, effective, FDA-approved solutions to your menopause and perimenopause symptoms prescribed by menopause-trained doctors with unlimited ongoing care with your own personal doctor. You can message them anytime from anywhere for no extra cost. Menopause is inevitable, but suffering doesn't have to be. Alloy has everything you need to age happily and healthily.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Feel like yourself again. Go to myalloy.com to start your consult with a menopause-trained expert today. Use code Oprah to get $20 off your first order.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
I thank you for being here with me on the Oprah Podcast. Dr. Grayson and I are discussing the remarkable insights in his book, After a Doctor Explores What Near-Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond. So orthopedic spinal surgeon and two-time New York Times bestselling author Dr. Mary Neal joins us from Jackson Hole, Wyoming.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Dr. Neal, you also had a near-death experience, I understand, 30 years ago on a kayaking trip. What happened? Welcome.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
In his latest book, After, a doctor explores what near-death experiences reveal about life and beyond. Dr. Grayson suggests there's more to the human mind's experience beyond what we know here on Earth.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Wow.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Yeah. Every time I've heard this, it feels like the truth to me because, you know, I was raised very, very strict religiously. And the word you just said here resonated with me. with such judge that when you die, there's going to be the judgment.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
And I remember the first time I heard someone talk about this on the show, I thought, oh, the judgment is actually the way you've lived and the feelings that you've created with other people. Everything you've ever done comes back to you. That's the judgment.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Grace, kindness.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
So you received a warning. You received a warning during your near-death experience. What was it?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
And we talked with Academy Award nominated actor Jeremy Renner, who shared details of his near-death experience.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
And I was- And 10 years later, your son actually passed away. So this is what I was wondering, since you've been given that warning that your son is gonna die, how do you live in this world of density for 10 years knowing that your son is going to die early, and that's part of one of your assignments. How do you live not in fear every day?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Or is it because you had that loving, near-death experience, you know that whenever he passes, it's going to be okay?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
How did you now, in human form, again, not in that loving, all-connected space, come back knowing that your son is going to die today? And nobody else around you knows that. So now you have to move to the world. And you weren't told when it was going to die. So you don't know if he's going to die next week or next month. And then years pass and he doesn't die.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
So you're thinking maybe that I didn't even hear that. Maybe that wasn't even real.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Got it. That's what I'm saying.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Can you explain to us how he died 10 years later? People listening will want to know.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
And so when you got that message that your son is gone, you thought, okay, there it is.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
First of all, welcome to the Tea House. Thank you, Oprah. I'm delighted to be here with you today. I love this conversation. I love having this conversation. How do you define a near-death experience?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
I always say when you lose a loved one, tell me if you agree with this or not.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
But since I started hearing these near-death experiences and also know that I have a whole posse, I have a team on the other side, I feel them all the time looking out for me, that that's one of the reasons why I've had a life that I've had because of all that's come before me and where are all those people with me right now.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
And I'm just wondering if you, you know, still feel him, you still feel connected to that. Do you feel that sense of awareness?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Yeah, you can. The brain doesn't acknowledge it, but I can tell you, I experience it through stillness. I can sit amongst the trees and literally become one with them. I mean, I can, you know, I know that sounds crazy, but I can. So I think that there is a way to do it, but I also feel that the density of the body keeps you from doing it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
It's why I always do say, though, when people have loved ones that pass, Dr. Grayson, it's like now you have an angel you can call by name. Yeah. Now you have somebody who's crossed over to the other side. Thank you so much, Dr. Neal. Dr. Neal's books are To Heaven and Back and Seven Lessons from Heaven. We could listen to you all day because we love this conversation. We love this conversation.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
It's my favorite conversation too. Thank you so much. Thank you for joining us.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Yeah. I think that's so cool. So obviously, since you had the experience with Holly, who's in the ICU and completely out of it, that you were telling us earlier in this conversation, and the next day you come in and she remembers a conversation that you had down the hall with a friend of hers and knows that there was a stain on your tie, you start to think differently about all of this.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
So what do you make of all of this?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Why is there such resistance to it? Is it because the very nature of scientists and the medical field is to question what you don't know?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
And I think that doctors and scientists... So they're taught the mind is what the brain does.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Okay. Thanks for joining us for this episode. When we return, Dr. Grayson reveals what it would take for scientists to believe these accounts of near-death experiences.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Apply for Apple Card today and start earning up to 3% daily cash back on everyday purchases. And that daily cash can even grow automatically when you open a high yield savings account through Apple Card. What are you waiting for? Visit apple.co slash card calculator today to see how much daily cash you can earn.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Subject to credit approval, savings available to Apple Card owners. Subject to eligibility, savings in Apple Card by Goldman Sachs Bank USA. Member FDIC. Terms and more at applecard.com. This episode of the Oprah Podcast is brought to you by Booking.com. Listing your vacation rental on Booking.com opens the door to more guests.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Booking.com is one of the most downloaded travel apps in the world that makes it the place to list your vacation rentals if you want to earn more with consistent bookings, reach new markets, and turn hosting into a steady income. Over the past 25 years, they've helped more than 1.8 billion vacation rental guests find places to stay. So why not help them find yours?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
You can manage your bookings and have control over your property's calendar and finances. It's hosting on your terms. The best part? Getting started is super easy. In less than 15 minutes, you can register your property and nearly half of partners get their first booking within a week.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
If you've already listed on another site, Booking.com makes it easy to import your property info and get going right away. Whether you're looking to earn that extra income or fill those vacant weekends, head over to booking.com to see how you can get started today. The reach is global, the bookings are consistent, and the control is yours.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
For the bookings you've dreamed of, list your property on booking.com.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Welcome you back to the Oprah Podcast. Dr. Bruce Grayson is here shedding light on the greatest mystery of all time. What happens after we die? What you hear may surprise you or maybe inspire you. Harmony joins us. Harmony is in Los Angeles, a Grammy-winning songwriter and producer who also had a near-death experience at the age of just, you were 13? 13 years old, yes. 13 years old. Tell us.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Hey, welcome, Harmony. How you doing? I am doing so good. We want to know what happened. What happened to you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
What struck me about the indie experience of so many different people you describe in your book is how similar they all are. So, you know, I've talked to people who experienced the whole tunnel, people who haven't experienced the tunnel and the tunnel of light. But what are the elements? And it's not just about the white light.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Yeah. You didn't feel afraid at all. But didn't you hear them say, you're dead? Didn't you hear them say, he's dead?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
They're wrapping him up right now, about to put him in a... How did this change you as a 13-year-old?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
And you heard the voice of God. as you know it to be. Um, 10%.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
You heard the voice say, it's not your time. And then did you, that's when you, you felt that you came back into your body.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
I know, Harmony, you have a question for Dr. Grayson. What is it?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
So what would prove it to the scientists? Because I don't know what you need other than thousands of people who've experienced it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
In less than 15 minutes, you can register your property and nearly half of partners get their first booking within a week. If you've already listed on another site, Booking.com makes it easy to import your property info and get going right away. Whether you're looking to earn that extra income or fill those vacant weekends, head over to booking.com to see how you can get started today.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
I think the beautiful thing, one of the other beautiful things that you've said here, and I have tried to be guided by that voice my whole life, Also, never had an NDE or near-death experience, but I remember being on the back porch. My grandmother was washing clothes, and I was like four or five years old.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
And she said, you better watch me now, Oprah Gale, because one day you're going to have to learn how to do this for yourself. And I distinctly heard the voice say, no, you won't. Your life will be different. no, you won't, your life will be different. And I remember that feeling and that feeling, that voice is different than the voice that's just in my head, that goes on and on.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
And I have tried to be obedient to that voice. So when you said, Harmony, oh, there it is, Oh, there it is. Anytime I'm in a crisis and I'm thinking, and I don't know, what should I do? What I should do? I go and get myself still so I can hear that voice and go, oh, there it is, and be guided by that thing. And that, you never go wrong. Yeah, you never go wrong.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
God is the all-encompassing word. Yes. Yeah. And oftentimes when I pray at my table and there are different people from different backgrounds, I say, by all the names we call God in the universe so that it is inclusive of whatever that is to you. And it is. It is all one thing. It is all one being, one existence, but whatever you choose to call it. Well, thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Keep being led by the voice, Harmony. Thank you so much, Scott. The honor and the blessing of being in this room. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. So, I mean, I think what Harmony was able to share, I don't know if a lot of kids have had that experience.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Yeah. But I thought what he said about the voice is so, that's amazing. We have Gabrielle. Gabrielle joining us from Natural Dam, Arkansas. She's a country singer who had a near-death experience two years ago just before discovering that you had a brain tumor. Welcome. Take us back to that night. Your mom found you in the room, bedroom, growing up. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Well, we don't have an opposing opinion here today because we're going to hear from people who've had this experience. But I have done shows and had multiple conversations where there are people in your same field and scientists who say that this is some form of a hallucination based on chemicals in the brain that's causing these experiences. And I'm obviously sure you've heard this too.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
There's multiple, multiple miracles that you have done. I mean, first of all, Jesus waking your mama up and she wants to do laundry in the middle of the night. Let's just start with that one. I mean, listen, I believe in all of that. I know exactly what you're talking about when they like, gosh, I just feel like doing laundry and don't know why. And there you are throwing up in the bathroom.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
So tell us about the near-death experience. What did you see? What did you feel? Did you see Jesus?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
So what she's describing is what so many people describe too. Because what I've heard too, and you write about in After, is that words fail you. Words are a creation of this realm and, you know, language, which is necessary for us to communicate, but that you don't need that on the other side, in the other realm.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
You've had to come up against this for many years. And what do you say about that?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
And after your ND, your near-death experience, I heard, Gabrielle, that everything just felt trivial after that. Tell us about that feeling.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
I loved earlier when Jeremy was on, Jeremy Renner, and he was saying, love is the only thing you take with you. Love is the only thing you take with you. Do you have a question for Dr. Grayson?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
And I hear you have an album coming out this summer, right? I do. Did you write a song about this experience?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Good luck to you on that album. Great success, Gabrielle.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Thank you for joining us. Thank you so much for sharing your story. Thank you. Let me just say, you got a good man if he came over there and closed that little eyeball.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
I got to say, that's one of the best love moments I've heard. I think that's fantastic.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Tell us what got you into this because there was a young girl.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
I just think that's so endearing. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. So Dr. Grayson, Dr. Neal, Harmony and Gabrielle, they all describe hearing a voice or the message. Yes. It's not your time, whether it's physically hearing it as Harmony did, or as in the case of Gabrielle, she said she didn't hear that, but she felt that. It's not your time. Is that common for most NDEs?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Because as you're coming back into the body, you come back,
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Well, you know, all of this reminds me, I had read Song of Myself, I think, in high school or college. And then the very first time I, Walt Whitman's Song of Myself, and the very first time I had an interview with somebody within NDE, their experience reminded me of what he says in Song of Myself. He says, all goes onward and outward together. Nothing collapses.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
And to die is different from what anyone supposed and luckier. Has anyone supposed it lucky to be born? I hasten to inform him or her it is just as lucky to die. And I know it. I pass death with the dying and birth with the new washed babe and am not contained between my hat and my boots. So when I went back and reread that, I thought, Walt Whitman must have had an MBE. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
So the title of your book, After, as I started out talking about at the beginning of our conversation, has multiple meanings for you. What are they?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
So one... That's one of the meanings.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Yeah, that's what Gabrielle was saying.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Well, I tell you, from the very first time I started hearing about them and just had the, aha, that makes sense to me. That's how religion meets spirituality. And also becoming aware of the army of people that have come before me. It helped me to not fear death.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
to not fear death because I believe, as Whitman says, that whatever is there on the other side is going to be the big surprise that being born in this realm was. And so do you fear death?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Oh, and that brings me to the question I like to ask everybody all the time here on this podcast is, how do you define a well-lived life?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Yeah. Well, thank you, Dr. Bruce Grayson. Thank you, Jeremy Renner, Dr. Mary Neal. Thank you, Harmony and Gabrielle for sharing your experiences with us. Dr. Grayson's book is After a Doctor Explores What Near-Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond. And it's available wherever you buy your books, wherever books are sold. Fascinating read. Go well, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
You can subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Yeah. This is the thing that I remember. She knew that you had a stain on your tie.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
So when you first started to talk about this or had the courage to actually mention things that you had experienced with patients and knew were being awakened to NDEs, even when we weren't calling them that, you got a lot of criticism and ostracism.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
The reach is global, the bookings are consistent, and the control is yours. For the bookings you've dreamed of, list your property on booking.com.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
That there's something greater than the brain, that the mind might be greater than the brain.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Okay. Many people you've interviewed use similar phrases, like during this experience, they knew everything and were part of everything, that there was no time, that the experience was more real than anything they knew to be real. There's also an overpowering feeling from all the people involved.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Hi there, everybody, and thanks so much for joining me here on the Oprah Podcast and for watching us on YouTube, which is the place to watch everything now I hear. Billions of people all over the world are watching so many things, and I'm so glad you've joined us here. Here's a question. Have you ever wondered what happens after we die?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
that I read about in your book and also in every experience I've encountered interviewing people, there's this overpowering similarity of people talk about unconditional love. Right. And that whether they're surrounded by light or not, whether the light becomes a religious figure for them or not, that there is the overwhelming sense of love and connectedness to everything. Right.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Well, it does feel like a different realm. Like it's not a part of... Right, right. And one of the first times I had a conversation with somebody about it was actually a gentleman that you talk about in the book After.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
And I, when we were preparing for you to come on the show, I mentioned to my longtime producer, Tara, I said, I remember years ago, it was between 90 and 94, And the reason I remember it, because I was so struck by what he said, and it changed me. It changed the way I thought. So Tom Sawyer had had an accident where a car had fallen on him.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
And I remember him being on the show and saying that he used to be a really cruel person and that, or I started the questions with like, I heard you used to be cruel. And he goes, oh, that's pretty harsh. But he used to be a really pretty cruel person and was abusive to his wife. And yet he, in that near-death experience, experienced everything he'd ever done to his own. Here's Tom Sawyer.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Wow. This is 1994. I'm looking at the woman's face behind him like, what is he saying? Have other people that you have studied talked about the similarities of reliving other people's experiences? The reason why that made such an impression on me, I actually got goosebumps when he said he felt everything that he'd ever done.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
I thought, oh, that makes sense. That is complete karmic sense that the life review would be that you feel everything you've ever done.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
I think if you live long enough, you actually start asking yourself that question. And I know we all have different beliefs on what lies beyond. And for some, they believe there is no beyond. We're asking today, what if science could help illuminate the mystery? What if science could do that? Okay. So I have always been fascinated by near-death experiences.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
That's what he was saying. My abuse to my wife, I felt how she felt, and therefore I come back trying not to be that kind of person.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Because... Many people that you have studied have felt that connection to the oneness of all that we read about, that all religions teach about. But somehow when you go to the other side or go to the other realm, you become a part of that and you understand it differently. And that's why after is so profound. It's not just about the life after death.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
It's about how you choose to live your life after death.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
You know that that's the ultimate rule.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
Thank you for your company today, for this fascinating conversation. When we come back, we'll hear the harrowing details of Oscar-nominated actor Jeremy Renner's near-death experience. And for the first time, he sheds light on the impact it continues to have on him. Thank you for joining us on the Oprah Podcast here. I'm so glad you are here.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and a Doctor Explore What Near Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond
And I'm speaking with one of the world's authorities on near-death experiences, Dr. Bruce Grayson, who's author of the book, After. And we're about to dive into some stories from people who've come so close to death and returned. They were technically dead. How similar are these experiences? You're going to find out soon.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Shortly after graduating from Princeton, she joined Ariel Investments, It's a Black-owned global asset management firm. Melody quickly rose through the ranks there, sharing her formidable knowledge on shows like Good Morning America. When you use a lot of the credit that has been extended to you, it lowers your score.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
I love this. This is ridiculous.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Thank you for listening to my podcast. I'll have more of my conversation with Melody Hobson about her new book, Priceless Facts About Money, right after this. Hey, again, I'm with financial trailblazer and bestselling author Melody Hobson, whose new book has great money advice for parents and their children. We have parents Zooming in with us today with questions for Melody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Kelly is a mother of two. Hello, Kelly. And he's joining us from Milwaukee, my old stomping grounds. So what's going on with you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
So what is your question for Melody?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Melody is now the co-CEO and president of Ariel and served for over three years as chair of the board of Starbucks. She is married to legendary filmmaker and Star Wars creator George Lucas. Together, they have one daughter, 11-year-old Everest. She is the inspiration behind Melody's latest project, the New York Times bestselling children's book, Priceless Facts About Money.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
That's what you did with the $3, right? You had actually $3.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
that other kids don't have what you have.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Yeah, I think that if you're four and six, you can't even comprehend that somebody doesn't have what you have. Until you see it. Until you see it. I think your kids are there. Can we see your kids? I'm looking at the picture.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Wow. Gorgeous. Look at that family. Thank you for saying hi. They're the big $3 shoppers. Look at him. Look, who is this and what is going on? Thank you, Kelly, and your family. Thank you so much. Thank you all for joining us. Thank you for your questions. Nice to meet you. Christy from Dubuque, Iowa, is joining us. She has a 12-year-old daughter, Piper, and son, Cole, who's 15.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Christy, I hear you're taking a few steps, you say, right now with Cole. to teach him the value of a dollar. How's that going?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
How important is it for kids to have a job, Melody? Very. It's very important to have a job. I think if you don't have a job, how do you ever learn the value of money if you don't have a job?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Okay, so I think that's a great thing that he has a job. Me too. That's what I wanted to say.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
You decided on the 80-20? You did?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
So when I first read Melody's book, Priceless Facts About Money, I was so surprised and delighted because what you did was you made learning about money fun. And I know you were originally writing this book for children. And I'm reading it like, well, I don't know how the stock exchange started. I didn't know. So there were many things I didn't know.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
I was struck by that. That's why I asked who came up with that. Was that your idea? Because it feels...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
It felt off balance to me. I first thought I misheard you because I would think saving 20%. That's what I would have thought too. 20%. Saving 20 percent.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
And I think, are you finding that a lot of adults are saying, Thank you for this book. That was the goal.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
And we all know, I mean, the first time I got a credit card, I thought it was like free money and went immediately into debt. I was a young reporter first time because my father had not believed in credit cards ever.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Wow.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
I took out a consolidation loan because I owed Visa $1,800 and the interest was so high. I thought I would never, ever, ever.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
So I think, first of all, Cole is very fortunate that he has Ms. Melody Hobson herself advocating for him. And I think what she shared with you today is going to absolutely bring a greater sense of balance to your family. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
I love the family match, don't you? I saw your eyes light up when you heard that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Thank you. Thank you, Christy. Thank you so much. Stay with us. We're going to have more questions from parents who are looking for money advice from bestselling author and financial expert extraordinaire Melody Hobson. We'll be right back.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
I'm glad you joined me. I am talking all things money, especially for parents, with bestselling author Melody Hobson. So Lindsay from Chicago has a question about giving a credit card to her seven-year-old daughter. Hi, Oprah. Hi, Melody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Seven years old is too young. I'm sorry. Have you been listening to what you were saying earlier about cash being the best way? Because at seven years old, if you're using a credit card already, you don't even know what it is.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
I think this is so powerful, what you're saying. At seven, maybe, because you're able to do things for your daughter that weren't done for you. You're able to give her a life that you only dreamed of and that she gets to...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Say that again, what you just said to her, Melody, about start with where you want to intend.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Yes. I liked it so much. I chose it. It's one of the favorite things because I think to be able to give it to yourself and then share it with your children is the ideal. So what inspired you? I know that money has been a part of your calling from the lack of money as a little girl.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Okay. And were you feeling pressure because you think other parents were doing that? Or you felt like, why did you all come to that conclusion?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Yeah. Yeah. But I think what you're saying to Melody is so important that conceptually seven years old, you can't even, your brain won't even let you do it. No, not at all. Yeah. No matter how smart she is. Yeah. All right, Lindsay. Good advice today. Thank you. 21-year-old Jordan from Texas is also joining us.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Jordan, I hear congratulations are in order because you recently secured a full-time job.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Okay, so how is the adulting going for you now?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Yes. Yeah. So, so, you know, I, have you gotten your first paycheck yet?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
I've experienced it over and over again.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
The tables totally turned. I can tell that struck you. I could see your facial expression when she said that. Why did that strike you? Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
You didn't have a kitchen like that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
But it took you from 1991 to 96.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
We all remember saving to buy a mattress.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Really important. So she was talking, Jordan was talking about savings. What do you think about the proportion of savings versus what you're actually spending? What should that be?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
I know.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Oh, I see that hit too, Jordan. It did. Jordan's like the Amen Choir. Jordan, thank you so much. You're such a lovely person. Thank you so much. Congratulations. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you for being here with me. We'll be back with bestselling author and financial powerhouse Melody Hobson right after this. I thank you so much for listening and for being with me here.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
I'm back with Melody Hobson. So, Melody, what's your advice to everyone listening? What is the number one thing you want us to take away from Priceless Facts About Money, from knowing about what to do with our money?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Now, I think one of the most important things you've shared is that whatever your money habits are, you are passing that on to your children, whether you recognize it or not. And so you need to clean that up with yourself first. And that's why I think that Priceless Facts about money is invaluable to adults first and then pass it on to your children. Thank you for writing this.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Melody Hobson, thank you to all of my guests zooming in with your great questions for Melody. Every family needs this book. You need this book in your house. Priceless Facts About Money. Then you put it in your house. Then you give it to your auntie's house, your cousin's house. And if you're listening to this podcast, you can head over to YouTube to watch the full video.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Thank you so much, Melody. Thank you. That's great. You can subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Yeah, because it used to dress as everybody gets to see you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Did you have the patent leather shoes too?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Oh, I love it when that happens, when you take the thing that made you feel so powerless and you turn it into your real power. And obviously you have done that. And now you say 77 percent of adults, I would think it's even more, are anxious about money, that they don't want to talk about it. And parents don't want to talk about to their children.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Parents who have the money don't want to discuss it because they don't want their kids to feel entitled. Parents who don't have the money don't want to discuss it because they don't want their children to have to worry about that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
That's why I really do believe, and I've said this behind your back, this should be taught in schools. This should be a part of the curriculum for young kids because learning in a fun way like this makes it accessible. It makes you not have fear about it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
The facts are all quirky and different. And one of the reasons why I think it's so fun is because you actually used your daughter, Everest, who's 11 years old, to help you in writing the book and also helping to understand what was accessible for her, right? Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
And explaining everything from bartering. One of my favorite lines is when young Melody in the book, Melody, says, oh, I wanted to buy something, buy a book, and I couldn't because... They don't take cupcakes. They don't take cupcakes. And I thought, that is Gayle King, okay? You're talking about Gayle King trying to barter for cupcakes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
What's the most surprising thing you learned while writing this book?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Oprah podcast. I'm so glad to be here with you. And hello to everyone watching us on YouTube. I'm talking with the brilliant and most effervescent Melody Hobson, who is the real maven of money. I know that for many of you, talking about money, especially with your children, can bring up a lot of stress and anxiety.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Okay, so what do you think, Melody, that most parents get wrong when it comes to money and their children?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
So you knew that there was an exchange for this.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Do you think parents should allow their children to know how much money they make?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
And will you have another conversation as she's older? Because she's 11.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
Out of nowhere, they're going to ask you questions you're not prepared for. Melody grew up the youngest of six children to a single mother who struggled to pay the bills. She has her own painful memories of being evicted from their homes in Chicago. This lack of agency fueled Melody's awareness of what money means in the world, so she made it her mission to succeed.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
So, you know, I grew up with a mother like your mother. And I was just always told, we don't have it. We don't have it. We don't have it. Which is hurtful, and also you carry the shame of that. We don't have it, we don't have it, we don't have it. The shame is huge. Yes, I remember the Christmas I was told, there is no Santa Claus and you're not having Christmas because we don't have it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
I was five. Wow. Yeah, well, I was 12 and we were on welfare. I should have known there wasn't no Santa by that time anyway, but it was time. But I often think it would have been so much more meaningful if she'd said, we don't have it and this is why. Yeah. Or this is all we have. Instead of we don't have it, we don't have it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Business Leader Mellody Hobson Share the Money Advice You Need to Know Now
So I think that you're paying the bills, you know, at McDonald's versus this restaurant. You're looking at the bills. You're seeing... She had me look at the utility bills.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Hello, everybody. So glad to have you join me on this, the Oprah podcast. It is my hope that these conversations are somehow enhancing your life. It's great to spend time with you here. And I especially like hearing from listeners who zoom in. Talking with the audience was one of my favorite things during the years of the Oprah show. So it's been fun vibing with you all here on the Oprah podcast.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
35-year-old Sasha says she found the special inspiring also in education. I'm so glad to hear that, Sasha. What's your question?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
But first, we saw this somewhat alarming new study that showed that more than half... of women ages, listen up, 30 to 35 are suffering from moderate to severe symptoms of perimenopause, and they're suffering in silence. And one of the things that Dr. Malone says in Grown Woman Talk, for sure, is that you don't need to suffer and you certainly don't need to suffer in silence.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Harvest those eggs.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
That's helpful, right? Yeah. And if you're unsure, I mean, I have a lot of daughters that I mentor and several of them are, you know, 29, 30 and already have done the procedure to harvest the eggs because they're not sure when or how or if they really want kids, but at least are prepared. Are prepared. Something to think about. Something to think about. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Sasha.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
I am so glad you could join us for this episode of The Oprah Podcast. Next, Dr. Sharon Malone and I are joined by internet sensations Kim and Penn Holderness for a candid conversation about how perimenopause is impacting their marriage. I know this is relatable for so many couples. That's right after a quick break.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. I'm with OBGYN Dr. Sharon Malone. She's answering your questions about everything related to menopause. This conversation is so important because there's still confusion and misinformation around this health issue that every woman will face. Let's get back to our conversation. We're going to move on to women beyond their 30s.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
I know you'll recognize Internet stars Kim and Penn Holderness. They won the Amazing Race on CBS, and their song parodies have billions of views, including a series about perimenopause. Kim and Penn join us from North Carolina, one of my favorite states. Hi, Kim and Penn. Hi. I hear you call perimenopause the third person in your marriage. How is that?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
And I'm sure there are a lot of reasons behind that, and we're going to dig into it. Dr. Malone, can you talk about these studies? What is your take on that?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
What is amazing is how well people responded to it because I guess a lot of guys are like you who are going through it or have been through it with their partners.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
I hear you're dealing with a lot of fatigue too, Kim, right?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Yeah, I know. That was it for me, too. I didn't sleep for two years during the Oprah show. And I thought I was going to lose my mind. Do you have a question for Dr. Malone? Either of you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Now, suppose she goes to her doctor and says this, and the doctor says, I don't even believe in that, or I don't know about that, or... Well... How do you find a doctor?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Well, one of the reasons why you should listen to Dr. Sharon Malone and read her book, Grown Woman Talk, is because Michelle Obama, one of the women we all admire so much in the world, listens to Dr. Malone. And she actually has a quote on the cover, the first person I turn to for a whole host of issues, especially my health.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Thank you so much for that information. That feels solid. Penn, any advice you have for men, Penn? Because we keep hearing guys have no idea how to handle this.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Thank you so much for joining us, Kim and Pin. Thank you so much. Thank you, guys. Trisha joins us from Woodland Hills, California, and her daughter Layla is Zooming in from her college campus in New Orleans. Trisha and Layla, tell us what's going on with you guys.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
And isn't it wonderful to see the light of Michelle Obama and Michelle Obama being the age that she is, I'm sure now having gone through menopause and still being the vibrant force in the world that she is. I think having women like Michelle Obama, having women like Halle Berry, having women like yourself is evidence for all of you who are 30, 35, 40, 45, getting ready to go through it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
It certainly increases your irritability.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Layla, you're in college. Very neat dorm room. You must have known we were zooming in. Very neat. But you also have a question for Dr. Malone.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
I also think that having the information makes everything so much more palatable. So I hope you have grown, Women Talk. If not, we'll send it to you because it is a manual for being able to live well. And we'll make sure you get it. Thank you, Oprah. Thank you, Dr. Malone. Thank you, Leila and Tricia. Thank you. Thank you for zooming in from school. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for having me.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
All right. Next up in my menopause talk with Dr. Sharon Malone, we're going into the bedroom. Yes. We'll talk to a couple about how to navigate sex after 50.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
that there is not only life after, but life actually gets better.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
We'll be right back. I welcome you back to the Oprah Podcast and more of my conversation about how to navigate the most frustrating symptoms of menopause. I'm with renowned menopause expert, Dr. Sharon Malone. Nikki and Raymond are the parents of a 13-year-old boy, and they're Zooming in from Thomasville, North Carolina. Hi, guys. What's going on? Hi. Hi. Welcome.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Welcome back, Dr. Sharon Malone. Her New York Times bestselling book is called Grown Woman Talk. More than 47 million women enter menopause each year. And yet I am still so surprised to learn this. Only 6% of those women are getting the help they need. That's 6%. And now new studies are showing that women as young as their early 30s are starting to have symptoms of paramenopause.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Dryness, yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Hypoactive sexual disorder means low libido.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
I should have branded that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
How does all this sound to you, Raymond?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
That's why we keep saying it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
I heard you shifted your own expectations about sex, too, Raymond.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
I think that's great. That's great, Raymond. That's great to hear. Thank you. Thank you both. I'm going to make sure you get the book. Do you have the book? No. So thank you. OK, we will make sure you get the book. Thank you so much. Thank you. I think I'll send two copies because once you read the book, you will be so informed.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
You will be jazzed about the information and how that information applies to your own life. I'm really excited, really excited to be able to send it to you. All right. Thank you both. Thank you. Okay, so I'm going to give you, Dr. Malone, the final word.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
What do you want to say to all the people like Raymond and Nikki, like all the women we spoke to this week and weeks ago, who are trying to figure it out for themselves?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Absolutely. We wanted to hear from women in their early and mid-30s who are finding out that they have these concerns. And so Chandler, hello, lives in Santa Monica and was in an audience that I did the ABC special on menopause with her mom. Chandler, what's your question? Hi. Welcome.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
And it's all right here in Grown Woman Talk. Thank you all. Thank you again, Dr. Malone. Thank you, our guests, for being so open with us about your experiences. Dr. Malone's book, Grown Woman Talk, Grown Women, Grown Folks, okay, is available anywhere you buy books. It has lots of important information about how we navigate the aging process from perimenopause and beyond.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
If you're listening to this podcast, you can head over to YouTube to watch the full video. Talk to you next week, everybody. Go well. You can subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Let's talk about what the symptoms are. You talk about 34 symptoms in Grown Woman Talk. Mood swings.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
But it does mean your hormones are fluctuating.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Dr. Sharon Malone is here for it. She has the answers for all your questions.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Something's off.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Yes. Not wrong, but off. Off. Yes. Off. Off. Thank you so much. Did that help? Yes. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. After these messages, we have more of my conversation about how to treat the symptoms of menopause with grown woman talk author, Dr. Sharon Malone. There is no need to suffer in silence. There just isn't any need for it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
And if you're suffering, come back and find out how to stop because there's help for you. That's next.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
As a certified menopause practitioner and OBGYN, Dr. Malone has been empowering women to take charge of their health for more than three decades. Dr. Malone is the chief medical advisor for Alloy Women's Health and the New York Times bestselling author of Grown Women Talk, Every woman should have it. Grown Woman Talk, your guide to getting and staying healthy. And this is what we all want.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Thank you for joining us. I'm talking to women's health expert, Dr. Sharon Malone. If you were born with ovaries, you will one day face the impact of perimenopause and menopause on every part of your body. I am so glad you're here because this conversation is intended to empower you with information about your own well-being. Let's get back to it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Fallon is 35, and I hear you actually had an aha moment during that ABC special, Fallon. Hello.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
I get it now. And she's talking about a special that I did recently with ABC. It was called The Menopause Revolution, and you can now find it on Hulu. So I'm glad you had that aha moment. Do you have a question?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Before you answer that, can you tell our audience what endometriosis is?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
All right, so I interrupted so you could explain what it was to the audience. Now what's the answer to her question?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
And this is a manual for living your life as you're going through perimenopause and menopause. And it's a manual, not just for you, but anybody you love or care about who's going through it. And that is every woman who lives to be old enough to go through it. And we are continuing our conversation around menopause. We'll be talking about specific treatments and sex after menopause a little later.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Dr. Sharon Malone: Menopause Solutions for Millennials, Your Weight, Sleep, Mood & Intimacy
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Childbearing. Yeah. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
This episode of the Oprah Podcast is presented by Lilly Direct, your online healthcare resource. Hello to you, dear podcast listener and YouTube watcher. I know your time is valuable, so I am thanking you all for taking the time to be with me here. My guest today is a long, long, long time friend, Maria Shriver.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
And you were one of those daughters like Gail. Right. You were my two best friends. I didn't have anything close to that kind of relationship with my mother. And both of you talk to your mothers every day, multiple times a day. And I could never understand what the hell are y'all talking about?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Explain the double padded door and the get out, get out. Your mother actually saying, go away, get out.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
You write this about feeling terrified in your own home. You say everyone lives behind closed doors. I stand here, frozen in the darkness, terrified. My brothers can't help. They aren't yet men. As the sun begins to break through, I return to my room down the hall. I shut my door. Daylight is coming. One more night is over. I made it through again. What was it that was terrifying you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Maria is an Emmy and Peabody Award-winning journalist and former national news anchor. She served four years as First Lady of California. She's the creator of the award-winning digital publication, The Sunday Paper, which I love to read every week. Maria is the best-selling author of many books and one of the world's leading advocates for women's health and Alzheimer's research.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
And out to
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Nobody talked about what it was and what had happened.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
But where was your father in all of this? So they slept in separate bedrooms, as a lot of people do. Mm-hmm. and your mother was at the end of the hall, did he know that you were and your brothers were trying to get in? Did he know?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
And Hoffman is the Hoffman Institute.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Is that where I See You Now came from, the poem that you write about your father?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
And now you write.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
And now she is a loving and doting grandmother to her daughter Catherine's children with actor Chris Pratt, Lila, Eloise, and Ford. In this book, you have opened, literally opened your soul and allowed all of us who have any feelings of loss or grief or not being enough or not being able to show up for ourselves. You have led us to the open field. And bless you for that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
You definitely did. As I was going to say, no surprise then that you would fall in love with somebody who was the exact opposite of how you saw your father. So when you met Arnold Schwarzenegger... You were just 21 and he was 30 years old. And when you first met, your family just thought it was just a passing phase. Yes. And you thought, I'm going to show them.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
And when Arnold decided that he wanted to run for governor, I remember those days you were sharply opposed to the idea. And one of the things that I remember us having this conversation at the time about you can run and run and run. and eventually it catches up with you because this is the exact opposite life that you had been seeking for yourself.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
And I didn't even realize... Because your mother had said, as I recall at the time, your mother was saying, if you oppose it and he ends up not doing it, he will resent you forever. Forever, yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
I remember you shared with me once, was it your... Uncle Teddy, or was it your father who had run for office and how all the people around and the campaign and it's hundreds of people. And then when you lose, you go home and there's, it's empty.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Especially when you understood your father's value.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
This is the man who created the Peace Corps. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
You say, too, that you have to admit that the thing that you had not wanted turned out to be one of the best things for you because being first lady of California allowed you an opportunity to reach and have a voice that could help change in a way that you hadn't before. Right.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
And I am so proud of you for that. And it's all in the form of poems. And you go places I thought you would never go. I want to say I really, really, really am just honored that you have become... and evolved into the woman that you are. And I'm so honored to have you as my friend.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
So let's talk about the other breaking open for you, breaking open moment, was the divorce, unquestionably. Your husband had a sexual relationship with somebody who was working inside your home, and a child resulted from that relationship. You were betrayed, and you write poems here about your feelings about that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
And in the introduction, you write, you say, "'As I sat on my hotel room floor in the dark,' terrified and alone with tears streaming down my face I thought to myself Maria this doesn't have to be the end of you it can't be the end of you make it a new beginning of you and you write that it took you many years to get to that point to recover.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
And that's why I couldn't believe that you're putting this all in writing because I know this to be true. You literally tried every method of healing anybody has ever heard of.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Yeah, you did.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
I remember the night that the story about Arnold's betrayal was going to go public. You had known for a long time, but the night that it was going to go public was the night that I was ending the Oprah show in 2011.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
have never seen a friend like you because on the night that you knew that that was going to be going public you came and you showed up for me you showed up for me and I don't know how you did that because I would you weren't even in your right mind were you even present in your body Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
I remember seeing you in the bathroom that morning because you were... We were working on Evening Magazine. Yeah. And you'd been up and I said, whoa, what are you doing here? And you said, I've been up all night and you're throwing water on your face.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Thank you. Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
We would sit there and have those crab cakes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Actually, Maria and I have been friends as long as Gail and I have been friends, and we all met in the same place at WJZ-TV in Baltimore. Correct. We met when we were both in our early 20s, so I've known you now for, we've been friends for 49 years.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Well, you have done such a beautiful job raising your children. I mean, I know you have all of these different roles, but your primary role, even as your friend, as I see, has been that you have been the mother that raised generous and kind children, which is a very hard thing to do in today's world.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
There's no reason why they shouldn't.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Lessons. What is the thing that your mother gave to you that you feel that you're passing on to your children?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
And you write a poem about the fact that, it was a poem and a tribute, the fact that you were able to explore and touch your vulnerability and femininity in a way that she was not allowed or certainly didn't feel that she could.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
And for 10 years, your dad struggled with Alzheimer's. I just so appreciate the poem that you did for over a decade when you watched him descend into...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
So when you're with a person who I've never had been, talk to anybody who I knew as well as I do you about a family member going through it. When they first start to not to know who you are, do you feel that they are still who they are?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
You write, though, in I Am Maria that you sometimes still struggle to be truly at peace with yourself.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Did writing I Am Maria bring you a sense of peace?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
You don't?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Maria and I are strength training together at the gym.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Yeah, remember that night you were talking about a friend who was going to take a vacation with themselves? And your father was like, who ever heard of such a thing?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Do you think you understand now? I ask this question often on this podcast. Do you think you understand now, have a greater understanding now of what it means to have a well-lived life?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Because you were a part of the family once. was considered American royalty. I mean, literally. I mean, you were born at a time when Camelot was becoming Camelot, right?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Yeah, I was just going to say, you end with the piece titled The Open Field, and you say, I'll meet you there. Yeah. And what I believe, can you hand me the book, please? What I believe is that all of these beautiful... The stories you tell through your poetry are going to open up the hearts of other people to see themselves. Yeah, I hope so.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
The fact that you have written a book of poetry, Maria. Yeah, I know. Could you believe it? This is something you have never done. I thank you. And I know that so many people are going to find comfort. And I know you would appreciate this because you and I both love Mary Oliver.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
And I have Mary Oliver's poems.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Her book, Devotion. Oh, yes. The Devotion book by my bedside. And now this will go by my bedside. I am Maria.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Maria, you've got Americans reading poetry. That is a very big deal. That's a big deal. That's a big deal. Maria's book is called I Am Maria, My Reflections and Poems on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home. It's available April 1st anywhere you buy books. And Maria reads the audio version. I thank you to Lily Direct for presenting today's episode.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
And I want to personally thank you, all our dear listeners, for joining us here. Talk to you next week. I am Maria. Go well, everybody. You can subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Right. And you say early in the book, I never imagined that writing poetry...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
helped me embark on a journey deep into myself and i never imagined that everything i sought for that you were thinking that you were looking for right was within you all along well that's every spiritual teaching we've ever heard well i know but i think i was raised in a family that taught you like you go out you change the world and that's the brass ring there was no uh
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
And I knew that Maria was writing a book, and I asked her to send me her new book, I Am Maria, My Reflections and Poems on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home. I have to tell you all and to tell you that I read this on a rainy day, sitting in my window seat, and I wept. I wept because I've known you all these years.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Yes, because at your dinner table, people literally had to come talking about what you did today and how is that going to impact the world. Oh, big time. How are you going to be of service? Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Hiding in the bathroom because it's too much pressure. Sure.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
You say it was the heartbreak of your divorce that cracked you open to reveal some of your biggest trauma. And that turned out to be actually your childhood. How did your divorce lead you back to your childhood?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
And how did poetry become a part of it, Maria?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
So let's start with your mother, Eunice Kennedy Shriver, who's one of the most formidable writers.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
powerful i mean i remember years ago saying if she ran for president i would do whatever i could to help her right and i think she if she were born at another time she would have been president so eunice kennedy shriver her brothers uh were are your uncles right and were president john f kennedy and senator robert kennedy and eunice was as you say in the book the most impactful person in your entire life and in the book you describe your household as being
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
like a chaotic pressure cooker. Give us a picture of that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Maria Shriver has lived an extraordinary life, most of it in the public eye. She was born into American political royalty. Her father, Sergeant Shriver, was an American diplomat and was once a candidate for vice president of the United States. Her mother was Eunice Kennedy Shriver. She was the sister of President John F. Kennedy and Senator Robert F. Kennedy.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
I remember the first time I went to your house. There are all these letters in the bathroom from like all the world leaders you've ever read about in history. You're like 23, right? And you're 24.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
And yet when tragic things would happen, I remember having this conversation with you 20 years later because I still remember November 22nd, 1963, like it was yesterday. It's probably in your body. Yes, it's in my body because I was nine years old walking home from school in the rain by myself and President Kennedy had been shot. And I remember having a conversation with you and you said,
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
We never discussed it at our house. No. And I could not believe that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
So the president of the United States, her brother is shot and there's never a conversation about that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
And then four years later, your uncle is shot and there's never a conversation about that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
That's why this book, I Am Maria, is so miraculous, actually, because you came from an environment of what happened to you. Nobody discussed feelings. Nobody talked about really what were tragic events in the household. You just kept going and kept doing and let's show what we can do to serve the world. And yet you've now offered us your soul.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Coming up, Maria Shriver explains why her mother Eunice had double padded doors to get into her bedroom, a place Maria was almost never allowed. Plus, she reveals what happened the moment she found out her marriage to Arnold Schwarzenegger was over. I know many of you are managing chronic conditions like migraines or diabetes or obesity. Well, I want to tell you about Lilly Direct.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
It's a patient care resource designed to support you during those steps when you need it most. has options to help connect patients to independent providers and wellness education and information. Lilly Direct can help you get the guidance and expertise you need when you need it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Plus, their online pharmacy solution, powered by licensed pharmacies, delivers your medicines directly to your door if prescribed by a health care provider. That's key. You can visit LillyDirect.com today and take the first step towards a healthier, more balanced life. Thank you for listening to my conversation on the Oprah podcast with my dear friend Maria Shriver.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
I've known her for nearly 50 years. We're talking about her new book of poetry titled I Am Maria, where she opens up about the highs and the lows of her extraordinary life. I want to begin with some of your beautiful poems. So in one stanza of a poem titled The Child Within, I think is that the first one? Yes. I'm going to read it. Okay. You read it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
The child within, what are you afraid of, says the voice of the adult, full of judgment and scorn. I realize that's my mother talking to me. I know she can't abide fear or weakness. She can't handle neediness. She can't comfort the child in me. Don't come in my room, says my mother. Stay out of my room. Get out. Go away. Get out. Go away. So I do. That's my mother's voice.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Eunice was the founder of the Special Olympics. Maria grew up the only girl in her family with four brothers. In 1986, Maria married the world-famous actor Arnold Schwarzenegger, who later became governor of California. Together, they have four children, Catherine, Christina, Patrick, and Christopher. They divorced in 2021.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Maria Shriver on Heartbreak, Healing, and Finding Your Way Home
Stern, scary, terrifying. The child in me is anxious and scared. I wonder about the child in her. Is that child anxious and scared? Nobody saw her. Nobody sees me.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Hello, and thank you for listening to the Oprah podcast. Hello to you watching on YouTube. We are diving into today, healing relationships with our loved ones and the one that matters the most, our relationship with ourselves. It's the ultimate. I want you to welcome with me Dr. Tama Bryant. Can we just speak a minute about what betrayal does to the spirit?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Yeah. I could see that hit you and it landed. Is that you realize in that moment that Dr. Tamar was talking that you are grieving the idea that you had of him because who he really was, who he really is, is the guy who betrayed you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Avery, the fact that he cheated on you with those eyes that match your sweater, I don't even know what to say.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Boy, bye. Okay. That is the truth. Thank you so much, Avery. Thank you. Thank you. Have a great rest of your day. I love the fact that you say it matters of the heart that you have a whole chapter, actually, that experiencing infidelity, which, you know, Avery's been going through and grieving this past two years is really a form of loss. and grief and trauma. That's right.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
It's not just infidelity. Yeah. It's a major thing to be betrayed.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
said on a previous podcast to let them go. And you start the book with this. I love this so much. I come to this work as your facilitator, you say. Someone who has experienced living with a full heart, living a busy life with a neglected heart, going through the deep sea diving of living with a broken heart and tenderly and compassionately healing my heart. Why did you need to
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
And the level of betrayal sometimes is so profound that you're just like... Girl, please.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
That's your triumph. Yes, yes. And I really, really, really, it resonated with me and I'm sure a lot of you, too, listening to us, what you said to Avery about you are grieving the man you wanted him to be.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
And I think for Avery and for anybody else who's going through this, that to get the truth of it helps the healing of your own heart. Yeah. Yeah. She's going to come through it and going to be stronger and better for whoever shows up next. So Stevie is joining us. Stevie's a wife and mother to a toddler. Hi, Stevie. Hi, Stevie. I heard that you wanted to deepen female relationships in your life.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
What's going on with you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
heal your own heart. First of all, I want to say thank you, Oprah, for having me.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Wow. Preach this evening. Whoa. The fact that she is questioning it, it's just like you said to Avery before, the fact that you're now thinking about, now maybe I'm ready to be interested in somebody else, means the healing has taken place. Yes. So the fact that you are in this space, isn't that a wow, aha for you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
The fact that you're in the space of asking the question means that you are spiritually, emotionally, psychologically getting yourself ready for this season that is yours to come.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Yeah, I'm really excited for you. I'm excited for you. Thank you so much. Thank you, Stevie. I could see that that message from Dr. Tama just blessed you right now. And all of us who were able to witness it feel the blessing.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Yeah, go with it. Go with it. Thank you, Stevie. Thank you. Coming up, Dr. Tama explains why so many of us can get caught up in the distractions in our daily lives, like taking care of kids or building careers or focusing on life's challenges instead of taking care of ourselves and our wellness. Sometimes hard to do, I gotta say. I know so many of us do that, don't we? We'll talk about that next.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
We're learning how to heal our relationships with others and ourselves. Author Dr. Tama Bryant is here and she is just full of wisdom on this episode of the Oprah podcast. We have you did that thing right there. That was that was so excellent. Thank you. We have Nastasha joining us from Chicago. Hey, welcome. Hi. How's Chicago? Where are you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
I know where that is. And I hear after 15 years of nursing and caring for others that you have now come to a revelation about yourself and the matters of your heart. Tell us what that is. What happened?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
And it's so interesting you saying that because I noticed this with a lot of my daughter girls who come to school from South Africa to go to college here. Yeah. where achievement becomes the thing. Yes. Achievement becomes their identity. Achievement.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
I had one of my daughter girls who's now a doctor at UPenn, but went to Spelman, graduated summa cum laude, got one B and fell apart over one B because the identity was I'm a straight A student. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
That's right. And so what I have found with a number of my girls is that because so much emphasis has been put on the academics and achieving and being success and you're the first in your family and all of that, they're not as good with the relationships because all the energy goes into making yourself the successful person.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. High five yourself. Yeah. I know that hit a nerve right there.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
I think what happened here was an opportunity to see yourself from the point of view of what's really been happening with yourself. I really appreciate it when you said you're not bored. You're just not used to ease. Yes. And you think being still means I'm bored because I have to prove, I have to prove, I have to do, I have to show, I have to, you know. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Can I just stop everybody right now? Because I have known you since you were a little girl. That's right. Because Bethel AME Church, y'all, in Baltimore. was the center of our, not just the city, but the spiritual culture for the city. That's right. And when I first moved from my father's house in Nashville and moved to Baltimore, the first thing he said to me was, find yourself a church home.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
I'm so glad this is on tape because you're getting so many ahas so quickly that you're not even going to remember everything she said. I can see you're like, okay, what did she just say? What did she? Okay. It's all on tape, so you don't have to write it down. But I can see that it's hitting you. You're like, huh? Huh? Huh? As I said, we got you here. We got you. We got you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Well, I want to say you already are worthy. You already are worthy. Already. But that you can be open to accept your worthiness. Yes. That's what you want.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
You want to be open to accept your worthiness because you have refused to see your value and your worthiness. And all of this happened in one Zoom call. This is an amazing thing. This is what happened to you today, Nastasia. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Bless you. Lots to think about. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Yeah, I think that I think the reason why it's so interesting talking to Nastasha is that she represents so many people in the world.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
I think it's also so important, the question that you asked her, what is the story that you told yourself about being a teen mother? Because she's still carrying that. That's right. And still trying to prove to those women who were in the room when she was picking up her child, I'm good enough, I'm worthy enough, I'm valuable enough, all of that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Was it hard for you to accept that about yourself?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
And Bethel became my church home. And I used to sit in, I used to come to 8 o'clock service. That's right. Because you couldn't get in at 11 o'clock service. I used to drive all the way from Columbia, Maryland. And I would be mesmerized by your father and your mother. Yeah. Yes. And your mother. Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Yes. Yeah. That's what she's dealing with, too. That's right. Well, Portia's joining us. She's one of nine children, and I hear you shoulder the burden of being the most successful member of your family. Tell us what's going on.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Okay, so we're not talking about little kids here.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Okay, very important.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
We're talking about grown women. I wanted to establish that, yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
So you decide. Stop right there. Stop right there. That nothing will ever be enough if they see you as their resource, because it will it will always be what else you got, what else you got, what else can you do, what else you got. And that's what you're feeling and that's what you're resentful and angry about. But. your past relationships with them has set this expectation.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
And so with Dr. Taylor, I'm speaking from experience. I'm a member of this choir, okay? And so you have got to establish that those days are gone. Yes, this is what I used to do. And now this is what I'm willing to do. It is a decision on your part. And people are going to be mad. They're going to be mad. You're not going to get through it without somebody being mad.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
But you're doing this to save yourself and ultimately to save the relationships that are meant to last.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Well, you know what? I suffered from this for so long. I literally have journals filled with the question of what do I owe? What do I owe? And when is it enough? What do I owe? And when is it enough? And can you help her answer that question?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Did I ever tell you this? That I became a tither at Bethel. It became my stabilizing force, being a 22-year-old girl moving to a city and not knowing anybody. That was not just my church home. It became my home, my community, my people. Wow. It was everything for me.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
I heard that. Let the church say amen. Amen.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Do you believe you have the courage now, the courage for the holiness of no?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Thank you so much. Thank you, Porsche. When we come back, I'll ask Dr. Tama what it means to live a meaningful life. I want you to think about that question, too. That's next.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Welcome back. I thank you for your company here on the Oprah Podcast. Dr. Tama is about to explain how to be intentional when it comes to healing the relationships in our lives. So you write about the co-creating joy. You say it's an inside job for an individual and a collective job for relationships. It is. Co-create joy with the people you love.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Well, this is the thing. You're a therapist. You're a professor. Yes. You're a minister because you have preached here today. Yeah. How do you describe a life well-lived, a well-lived existence? And what are the guideposts? What does a meaningful life look like when you're operating for matters of the heart? Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Ooh, I'm going to end on that. You are fed even as you pour.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Thank you, Dr. Tamer Bryant for what feels like sacred wisdom. Well, you come at it naturally. Okay. And I thank you to all of my guests today, Natasha and Stevie and Avery and Porsche, um, I so appreciate each of you bringing your whole heart to the conversation about matters of the heart. Dr. Tama's book is called Matters of the Heart, Healing Your Relationship with Yourself and Those You Love.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
And it's available anywhere you buy books. And Dr. Tama reads the audio version herself. Yes. So it's like having an ongoing podcast with you. And those of you who want to, subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. And don't miss a week. Go well, everybody. Thank you. Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
You can subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
It's different. Yes. It's different. Yeah. But it's there and it's real. She's there. Yeah. So that feels good. In chapter one of Matters of the Heart, you reinforce for us the importance of self-compassion and you define it this way.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
To be compassionate towards yourself means, I love this, you've created space for the fullness of your complex identity and your complicated life, including your fractured heart. The aim is to be able to look at yourself with honesty and appreciation. And the reason why it stopped me in my tracks because I thought, wow, so many people are walking around with fractured hearts.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
And the essence of matters of the heart, may I share with you all, is that you got to take care of yourself first. You got to practice compassion for yourself first before you can begin to give it to other people. And what is the best way for people to practice self-compassion, Dr. Tama?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Let the church say amen. A graduate of Duke University, Dr. Tama Bryant, who goes by Dr. Tama, is a clinical psychologist, a professor of psychology at Pepperdine University, and an ordained minister. Dr. Tama is the author of three books and is the host of the popular The Homecoming podcast, which raises awareness about mental health.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
And then you talk about this overextending yourself results in depletion. I mean, we have seen that over and over and over again, particularly in our community where women have given and given and given and there is nothing left. Nothing. And then don't understand why they are depleted. But you're saying that is the absolute counter opposite of having self-compassion.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
But how do you this is the thing I was reading that I was thinking about all the people who were saying easy for you to say, Oprah, easy for you to say, Dr. Tama, give yourself self-compassion when you are the number one breadwinner, when you are the one taking care of everybody and there's nobody there to take care of you. Where is there room for self-compassion? Right.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
So what should you be pouring? Should you be pouring prayers? Should be pouring, preparing, you know, pouring in silence? What should you be pouring in? Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Because I think so many and we're speaking to all of you who are just overwhelmed. You're overwhelmed and depleted. Yes. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
I know. I heard another scientist say the sickness often is your body's way of saying, time out, I'm done. I've done. I don't have anything else to give.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Your latest book is called Matters of the Heart, which I was even so touched by the title. Matters of the Heart, Healing Your Relationship with Yourself and Those You Love. And let me say to all of you who are watching or listening, this book is a treasure. It's a treasure trove of wisdom for any phase of your life. And we have you covered on this episode.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
I think one of the things that I really appreciate about Matters of the Heart is that it's not like flipping a switch and all of a sudden you're going to do everything. It's about taking small steps to begin to see yourself differently so that you can then actually know and acknowledge what it is you need to begin to take care of yourself. Because I think so many people...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
I'm so glad you joined me for this episode of the Oprah podcast. When we come back, Dr. Tama and I talk about how to heal after a betrayal. I think that's an issue so many people can relate to. That's coming up after the break. Thank you for joining us on the Oprah podcast. I am so happy you're here. And I'm back with relationship expert, Dr. Tama Bryant, author of Matters of the Heart.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
And we're about to hear some very personal stories from viewers and listeners who say they are struggling on their path to healing. So let's get to it. I'm so happy that there's so many people here who are interested in the healing process because we heard a lot of people who are in need of improving themselves. Some who are joining us on Zoom today. Avery is one of those people.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Avery, I hear you're 27. You recently moved to Colorado for a fresh start after experiencing a betrayal, the kind we keep hearing about more and more about. Betrayal leaves you devastated, doesn't it, Dr. Tamer? It's heartbreaking. Can we just speak a minute about what betrayal does to the spirit?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
You're on the up and up. Okay. What did you want to ask Dr. Tama?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Phones have revealed a lot of this world. A lot of people got messed up with the phones. Go ahead.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
Whatever you're going through, Dr. Tama talks about how to set better boundaries, forgiving without receiving an apology. Yes. I'm going to say that again. Forgiving without receiving an apology. Don't we all want to know how to do that? Investing deeper in your current relationships and releasing those in your life who just are not healthy for you to let them, as Mel Robba
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Thema Bryant on How You Are Worthy of the Life You Want
That clarification helps.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
You weren't afraid at all of taking on something that you'd never done before?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
You certainly didn't know that a $20,000 investment would put you 13 times on the bestseller list and that you would create this empire.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
I have to tell you, I am just thrilled to be joined by a living legend, the barefoot contessa herself, Ms. Ina Garten. Ina, so good to be with you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
I love the fact that your first catering opportunity was a drug dealer and you didn't know that. And then after that, you learned from your mistakes. All right, check out who your customer is. I think a lot of women, Ina, are responding to your revelation that in the early days of Barefoot Contessa, that you had asked Jeffrey for a separation.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
I know you did a book, Cooking for Jeffrey. We should have all of Jeffrey's sayings. We need Jeffrey's philosophy.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
At one point you were working so hard, you describe this in the book, that you decided to see a therapist and you say that it was one of the most important decisions you've ever made. How did therapy help you and why did you need it at that time?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
So true, Ina. You just, you are all those things. You're an icon. You're so beloved and you feel like a part of our lives. Are you zooming in from your famous kitchen we love so much? I'm in the kitchen in East Hampton.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Wow. You know, I think this is a really important lesson for young women in particular. And I read where you fought like hell, you say, to protect your image when you wrote your first book that's now a classic, The Barefoot Contessa Cookbook. Thank you. The public...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
The publishers were trying to change you, but you stuck to your own vision and wouldn't let them because I think they were trying to make you like Martha Stewart or Martha does it this way and all that. What did you learn through that experience?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
How do you discern then the difference between I feel that I am right and this is the right vision and being able to take in other information that could be helpful to enhance your vision? That's a really good question. More of my conversation with Ina Garten after these messages.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
No, that's some kind of special barn. Thank you for actually doing it there. It's like... Oh, I know this kitchen. We know the kitchen. So your memoir, Ina, Be Ready When the Luck Happens, is a New York Times bestseller. So I appreciate you taking the time out of all the things. Are you kidding? I mean, it's just. a thrill to talk to you. Yes, thank you so much.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
So, I'm glad you came back to join us with Ina Garten. Her memoir is called Be Ready When the Luck Happens.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Do you feel that way? I feel exactly the same way. You take in all the information, you get everybody's ideas, and then instinctively you will know.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
And somebody may be able to say something that adds onto something that you were doing or change your perspective. I'm certainly always open to that. And what I love about you two is that You understand that one of the secrets to success, and I found this too, is treating your people well. And I loved in those early days when everybody was working 22-hour days. So hard. So hard.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
And they were college kids. Yes. I mean, they weren't even professionals. I mean, they were, but they were young. Yes. And that when you would close at the end of the summer, that you'd have a big party and celebrate them all.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
So you share a few lessons that you've learned from, I think, your decades of barefoot business experiences. Can you give us, what are your top two that you want our listeners and viewers to know?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
I love that too. I never had a five-year vision plan either. You didn't either? Yes. That is my philosophy. You live this moment as powerfully as you can, and that leads you to the next one and to the next one. And you do your best in every single circumstance, and it leads you to the next one. No, I never did.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
How did you know you were ready to tell this story? I know that on page 293 you write, I had spent so much time avoiding the painful periods in my past, especially my childhood, that I wondered if I'd be able to open those doors and what would be behind them. And I have to say, I read a lot, a lot, a lot of books, read a lot, a lot of memoirs. This is one of the best
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Well, it works for some people. And then, you know, there are other people, like Stedman has visions and vision, you know, operates from a very different kind of strategic kind of driven force that I never have been. It doesn't work for me. You reference a quote that I think, I counted around five times in the book. It's something that Jeffrey had said early on to you in your relationship.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
He said, you never know your good breaks from your bad ones. Isn't that a great quote? Oh, that's Jeffrey. Jeffrey does it again.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
It opens to something else.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Well, I have to say when you were able to take everything that I believe that we all do this and that the people who do it the most powerfully end up being successful is taking everything that has happened to you in your childhood, the good things and the bad things, the things that you wish for and didn't get and the things that you did and using that as a force in your life, you know, to create the luck for yourself.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Can you see how you did that?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
That's the reason why it happens, because it's so familiar. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
What I found so interesting about you from the book is I was surprised to learn that your hobbies and jobs, and I think it was also Jeffrey who encouraged you to try different kinds of things, including those early years when you were working at a place called the Body Shop and you thought it was a... They were not repairing cars.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Yes, but you were an airplane pilot. You worked in a bookstore where you got fired. You were an analyst at NASDAQ, a secretary, as you say, at a strip club. And so you were just always open to trying new things until you found the thing that landed with you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
written, best exposed, vulnerable, generous, gracious memoirs I have ever read. It's just wonderful.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
What I also love about the book is that it is a food adventure. You share recipes and Take us into your creative process. And I love what you wrote. I love this on page 148. And when I read it, that is true. You said, one thing I learned and continue to learn every day is that the food we enjoy most connects to our deepest memories of when we felt happy, comfortable, and nurtured. That is true.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
It is true, isn't it? What are yours? What are those foods for you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Peas and fish at your table, I recall.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Exactly. Peas and fish.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
And I read a lot of them, but this just... I know you do.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
This just feels like you did the work to make it real. You did the work to... to bring it home and make it so relatable. I have to say it is so much work that I have not done it. I have not written a memoir yet because it is so much work. And I read that you did research on your own life to write this book.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Does it look delicious? Yeah. Wow. I love the fact that you bring us into that process and that there are recipes just coming out of you all the time, that there are ideas coming out of you all the time still. It still is that stimulating for you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
And I think one of the reasons why you've been on the bestseller list, obviously, 13 times is because of exactly what you were saying, is that every recipe feels like coming home to yourself in some way.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
I do so thank you all for listening. We'll be right back in a moment with Ina Garten. Thanks for staying with us and welcome back to my conversation with Ina Garten, bestselling author and Food Network star. Do you still like hosting a dinner party?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Six to eight. Six to eight. Ten max, because once you get to 12, it's hard to manage everybody in the same conversation at a table. It's also a lot of dishes and a lot of food. And a lot of glasses.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
You're doing it to connect. Yes, you're doing it to connect. And do you have any tips for keeping everybody in the same conversation?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
You even went to old homes you lived in and you went through 50 years of letters to and from your husband, Jeffrey, that we all adore so much.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Yeah, that's absolutely a good idea. Yes, because you're right. The two talkative people end up just talking to each other and then everybody else is in their own conversation.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Tell me this. What brings you the greatest joy now? Do you still get the greatest joy from creating the recipes, being a part of the empire that you've created, being with your team every day? What brings you joy?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
I'm sure you did think about this, and you hinted at it earlier in our conversation, that once you do the research on your life and you take the time to do a serious memoir like this one, that... you have a different kind of assessment of your life and you see your role and your purpose differently. What do you think your purpose and your gift to the planet has been?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Well, Maya Angelou shared with me my favorite quote of all time. And that is that your legacy is never one thing. It's every life you touch. And in your case, it's every dish you've made. It's every recipe you've shared. It's every person who's now made that recipe and shared it with somebody else. That becomes your legacy.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
So that gift continues to unfold as an offering of wonderful dishes, parties, people coming together. Oprah. Yes. Thank you. That is what you've done. That is what you've done. And one of the reasons why I wanted to do this podcast is to talk, particularly in these times, about what matters to us all. So I end this question with you. What matters to you now most? What mostly matters to you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
I love that so much. All right. Tell us how to be ready when the luck happens.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
And the truth is, had you not had that experience and learned what it means to run a kitchen, to have employees, to be able to, you wouldn't have been able to be prepared when the opportunity for the show came along and an opportunity which you turned down multiple times.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
For years. You thought you weren't ready. You thought you weren't ready.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Turns out millions of people do, Ina. Turns out millions of us do. Ina Garten, thank you for the gift that this book is. And I know a lot of people feel it's like a blueprint, actually, for building the life of their own dreams. That's what you've done. Be Ready When the Luck Happens is available now anywhere you buy your books.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
And you can also download the audio version to hear Ina tell her own story. So if you're listening to the podcast, you can head over to my YouTube channel to watch the full video. Thank you so much, Ina. Thank you for being with us.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Oh, a joy to be with you from your kitchen. You can subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Well, what you just said about connecting the dots, Ina, is something that's so powerful because I believe that, you know, a lot of people are looking for purpose in their lives and most people think that it's some big thing that you're going to find out there somewhere when really every day you're You're creating purpose.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
And if you look back on your life and connect the dots of your life, that thread that connects the dots would have been your purpose. You know, even though you may have never defined it for yourself, there is a thread that connects the dots of all of our lives. And that is so evident in Be Ready When the Luck Happens. I was so...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
When I first heard that this memoir was coming out, I thought, hmm, that's an interesting title coming from Ina Garten, Be Ready When the Luck Happens, because I remember years ago us having a discussion about... Do you remember? Yes, about... I didn't remember where it was.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
I didn't remember that it was the Matrix Awards, but I remember having a discussion, and I didn't remember slapping you, but I did remember...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Because in my mind, you were already an iconic figure. This is back in 2010. And a powerful woman. And you were, you know, in your speech, in your acceptance speech, over and over again, you mentioned luck and luck and luck and luck. And I come from this belief that luck is preparation, meeting the moment of opportunity.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
So anytime I hear anybody saying, I was just lucky, I was just lucky, unless you just fell upon, you know, a pile of money somewhere, I think, yes. So where did the title come from?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
As a title. That's a great, great, great. Yeah, it was just perfect. Well, I think, you know, titles really help define a story, and I think that having that title is what has caused you to be, yet again, a number one bestseller, because... Just picking up the book with that title, you think, wow, I wonder what this is about. And then what you've revealed in the pages.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
I love in the beginning where you say, I was trapped in a cycle of neglect and abuse. My parents didn't believe in me or my potential, but they held me to impossibly high and arbitrary standards nonetheless. If my father told me to do six things and I accomplished only five, there was hell to pay. And what's interesting to me about that is even the trauma and the challenges in our lives
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
They affect us and can be turned into power later on in our lives. Is that what you experienced?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Everybody, thanks for being with us on the Oprah Podcast. Around this time of year, there's nothing I love more than being comfy and cozy at home, maybe with something delicious bubbling on the stove. I hope that all of you are surrounded by those you love or maybe getting some much-needed alone time to decompress. That feels just as good, too.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Yeah, and what's so interesting about your story is that I was raised up in dire poverty and never having enough and all that, and if I were looking at you from the outside— I would have thought yours is the perfect life and that's the family I want to belong to. And that's the way your mother and father wanted it to seem.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
And yet what is so important, I think, in you sharing these stories is that nothing is ever as it seems.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Yeah. So it takes time. And you've said too, you say many times in this book and you show us, first of all, I love the pictures too.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Yes, that's why it's so beautiful. You've said many times that, Jeffrey, help you find your voice. How so? Mm-hmm.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Yeah. If I did things I love doing. He was a man ahead of his time. And in 1978, you were working, writing nuclear energy policies at the White House.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
When I think of my guest today, I think of comfort and warmth. Just the recipe we need right now. She is one of the most beloved cooks in the world. Oprah. Ina. How are you? I'm so good and so nice to see you. So nice to see you. The Barefoot Contessa, Ms. Ina Garten. So everybody, thanks for joining us on this podcast.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
Okay. And then you see this ad in the New York Times. And what about that ad struck you? I have no idea. We'll be right back with more of my conversation with the legendary Ina Garten. Hey there, I'm back with Ina Garten talking about her extraordinary memoir, Be Ready When the Luck Happens.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
But you know what's so interesting to me? Your mom, you weren't even allowed in the kitchen, and she didn't like carbohydrates and only made your first carbohydrate meal. It was when Jeffrey came to visit.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
It's not like you grew up in a home where you were learning to cook with your mom, and your mom was teaching you different—
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Ina Garten Share the Secrets to a Successful Life
So you see this ad in the New York Times, and you describe the moment that you walked into the doors of the Barefoot Contessa's, standing in that adorable little place you write, named after an Ava Gardner movie, surrounded by beautiful baked goods. Tell us what you felt when you stepped into that place.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Imagine you were five and a nun, a nun, all nun-like, says to you, I'm going to break the evil spirit in you. And you're five.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
So your mother would tell you family stories under a pecan tree. which you say nourished your soul. And I love that whole section of the book so much. You write, a part of that was my mother making sure that I knew what an honor it was to be Black. You've been known to wear T-shirts that reads 100% Black, and you once declared, I'm the Blackest woman you'll ever meet.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
The Beehive is buzzing in here. Y'all doing it. Hi, everybody. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us on this podcast. Welcome to Oprah's Book Club presented by Starbucks. We're here in a Starbucks cafe in my old Chicago neighborhood. I spent so many mornings and nights, 25 years walking my dogs all around this neighborhood. It feels so good to be back with you all.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Yumi in our audience has a question about that.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Wow. And your maiden name is Beyonce. And so when your daughter was born, you decided that you would call her Beyonce because it was a way of passing it on.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
In Matriarch, you also share what it was like raising your daughters, Beyonce and Solange. And you did a beautiful job of letting us know what that was. And I think that what you did so beautifully also was you gave equal billing to both of them. Right. And I know that was important to you.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
What's interesting is, though, that you could see from the very beginning and all of those of you who are mothers know this is true, that none of the children are alike. They come into the world with their own thing, their own nature. And then there's the nurturing that you all give to them. And from the very beginning, they were so different, you tell us, in matriarch.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
You all learned early on that when Beyonce was a baby, that she could only be soothed with music. And Solange was the opposite. She would be soothed by reading and other things, but Beyonce only responded to music. And you say that Beyonce loved the freedom of your family dynamic that it gave her, but Solange wanted something more practical and more structured. How did you figure that out?
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
There was that one time you skipped school and Solange was very upset.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
put your daughters in therapy at a very young age, at a time when it was considered taboo, especially in the Black community. I remember in 1986 when I started the Oprah show, everybody was like, I would never go to a therapist and going to a therapist makes you crazy. And one of your siblings told you you're going to make the girls crazy because they're too young. Something in your instinct said,
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
The girls needed to go to therapy. Why?
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Well, you know, you are obviously one of the most recognizable and beloved mothers. So it is no surprise to me that this book hit number one on Amazon charts the moment it was announced. Matriarch is the perfect title for your story. Why were you ready to share it now?
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Welcome back to more of my conversation. Let's talk about the discovery of Beyonce. Can you tell us a story of you and your ex-husband, Matthew, watching her perform for the first time when you saw her?
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Yeah, well, and we love it. Listen, I play Cowboy Carter every single morning. My alarm is Texas Hold'em. OK, this ain't Texas. OK. I have to say, though, that your ability to see the difference between the daughters and make a distinction, I think, is what has allowed them to be as close as they are now and also to be respectful of it. I loved in the book where you say. Solange is art.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
She is art. She's not just an artist. She is art. Yes. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Yeah. Let's talk about Johnny or Uncle Johnny. We know him in Beyoncé's song, Heated. We know that so much of the Renaissance was dedicated to him. He was your nephew. Yes. But also your best friend. He was your confidant. He was your partner in crime. Yes, always. And I thought it was really interesting that for these times, he was so accepted and embraced in the family. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
You say Johnny lived life, which is different from just living. And my friend Paulo and his husband, Patrick, are here. Patrick, you have a question about this, right?
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Well, we can certainly see where Beyoncé's flair for costuming, because when you go to any of the concerts, it's all about the show and the costumes. It's such a big part of the fantasy that she creates on stage that transforms the audience. And I could see from the first story about your mother and then knowing that your mother came from seamstress. Mm-hmm.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
You know how to do it and that you were doing all the clothes, all the clothes for Destiny's Child. And the way you were treated in the beginning by the record company doing those clothes, so disrespectful. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Yeah. You don't belong here. Exactly. That keeps resonating in your brain.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And so you were doing the clothes and the record company people are complaining that they're looking too much like the Supreme. You're trying to make them look like Motown.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Well, one of the things that I thought you did that was so admirable in Matriarch is that you tell your story, and we are fully engaged in your story, and all the people that are in your life, obviously, your ex-husband, and... ex-husbands, and your two very famous daughters, but you also don't expose their lives in a way that it feels invasive to them.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
defeating because i was so excited because i was like finally they accept it and you know they made fun of it you know the other thing that was so interesting is that your ex-husband matthew was able to instill within the girls at a very early age how to protect their money yeah i think that first of all i think you were very fair to your ex in this this book
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
because I know there's lots of things you could have said. That did not get said in this book. There was a never-ending cycle of him cheating. I mean, from the first sentence that you write about that, shortly after you all got married, I think the sentence was something like, he had a problem with fidelity. Yeah. And Roshni, you have a question about that?
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Yeah, did you ever, I was going to say, did you think it was because you weren't doing enough, that you weren't enough for him? Did you think that?
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
How would you describe it? How is your relationship today?
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Yeah. And then you married again when you were 61, I think, went to actor Richard Lawson and divorced after almost 10 years. And our friend Tyler Perry in the book you talk about told you something. What was that? He told you about that?
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
You come away with a great sense of how, first of all, you all got to be who you are. And in Matriarch, you tell us about the mothers that came before you, and I want to list them. You are the daughter of Agnes. Mm-hmm. and the granddaughter of Odelia, the great-granddaughter of Celestine, which was your original name, who had 10 children by her slave owner.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Well, you write something that really, I think, helps us to see the kind of woman and matriarch you've been all these years. You say, mothering someone is such an important job. You naturally put yourself on the back burner, wanting to do so well that you end up losing yourself. Mm-hmm. You say, I was no doormat, but I was damn sure hardheaded about taking care of everybody except me.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And yes, getting the praise for it. So what was the turning point that you realized enough? That moment where you say to the girls, look, I'm going to start taking care of myself.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
So you now have six grandchildren. Yes. Beyonce's Blue, twins Rumi and Sir, Solange's Jules, and Kelly's Titan and Noah. Yes. And Clotilde, I hear you have a question.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
and the great-great-granddaughter of Rosalie, who was also an enslaved woman. And one of the most sacred things that Maya Angelou had shared in one of her poems called Grandmothers, she says, I come as one, but I stand as 10,000. And in this book, Matriarch, we get to see how you came as yourself,
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
You say that you've been asked many times, what is the proudest moment you've had with your daughters? And what is your answer?
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
When it was announced that Beyonce won the album after all this time, after all this time, I was like, because I was just sitting there like, okay.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Who's it going to be? And I almost peed on myself when it happened. I was just like, oh my God, it happened. It happened. So that had to be, it had to feel like finally.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Anywhere you want to be. You tell the story of, I think it was the first album, and you all walk into the listening session, and there are all these guys around, and they're saying, there's not one single hit on this album. And it turns out, yeah, there wasn't one single Beyonce. There was five. That's right. It was five hits. That's the best feeling.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
But that condescension, that still doubting, that still lack of respect that you all were getting when she was Beyoncé.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Yeah, and so from the beginning, you saw this relationship between Jay and her blossoming.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
as this fearless woman, but of all the people, particularly the matriarchs behind you, that allowed you to stand. How were you able to discover so much about the matriarchs in your family?
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
They moved pretty slow as matriarch. Having passed on your love and wisdom and nurturing now to your daughters, what kind of matriarchs are they? Oh, God.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
But now you understand. I mean, we understand why you were mad at your mom. That moment you overheard that conversation.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
where you'd been taken to the hospital, you overheard your mom say after you were examined, was she pregnant or is she pregnant?
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Yeah. And that's what I thought about your mom. I thought, yes, she was passive, but she also was fearful, as all Black moms needed to be, because look at what happened to your brother. Right. The whole family was traumatized for years in that town. Your brother beaten and the family harassed and you arrested and all that. And so your mother had reason to fear.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Okay, I want to end with this beautiful passage in the memoir. Would you read it?
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Liberation. Liberation time. I'm telling you all, you're going to love this memoir. It's going to open up you to thinking about the matriarchs in your own life. You did such a great job. Congratulations to you and to your editor and all the people who made this possible, who decided, look at you on here, honey. I don't know if you think you're cute, but you ought to think you're really cute.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Matriarch is available wherever books are sold. And Miss Tina also reads the audio version of this book. Thank you so much.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Well, I have to say that the story that your mother and father were from Weeks Island, Louisiana, your father worked in a salt mine making $9 a week. Your parents' story was so harrowing. I've been... Anytime I ask anybody, I would start talking about this book and I would say... And you got to hear the story about her parents.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Can you tell us about your father going to the mine that day and your father and another man, because they were the lowest on the totem pole in the work order, were carrying the dynamite and there was an explosion. And your father was in the explosion and the parts of the mine crumpled completely. And they weren't going to dig for anybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And told that they had gone against company policy by going back to get your father. Yes. And so then this is what got me. Your father, then a union man comes along and starts talking to your father about, well, if you had been a part of the union, that wouldn't have happened to you. Right.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And I have to say, I love this idea of meeting a friend at your neighborhood Starbucks cafe to connect over a book. and a delicious cup of coffee or tea. I think it's a great way to spend a morning or afternoon. And the pairing for my April's Book Club is the Sencera blend. It's a nice light coffee, a Starbucks blonde roast with citrus and toasted almonds. Yummy, yummy, yummy.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
The town owners, the bosses in charge, realize that the union man has been to see your father and somebody ends up bombing the house. Yes. They threw a firebomb. They threw a firebomb in the house and your parents had to escape. Yes. And that's how your parents ended up in Galveston. Yes. Yeah. And your father ended up becoming a longshoreman and your mother was a seamstress. Yes. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
So you're the baby of seven children, and you paint this vivid picture that you said you didn't feel like you were poor, although you all didn't have much. You said you felt like y'all were millionaires. Right.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
You and I are born three weeks apart. Mm-hmm. I was same age, born three weeks apart. And I was raised in the South, but I got out. My grandmother became ill. I was sent to live with my mother in Milwaukee just before I started school. Wow. So as I was reading your story, I was thinking, wow, not being raised in a segregated school. is the thing that made all the difference for me.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
It's the thing that really gave me confidence because when I first moved to Milwaukee and I walked into kindergarten and I saw all these little kids reading, learning their ABCs, I was already a reader because my grandmother taught me how to read the Bible. So I was like, I'm getting myself out of here. You had a very different story.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Your story was the Catholic church is across the street from your house and run by black Catholic nuns. And when you go to this school, this is a school that the teacher's kids, the doctor's kids, the people who had, you know, higher paying jobs could afford to send their children to Catholic school. Your mother, who was a seamstress, had y'all dressed like Beyonce every day. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
You were dressed like Beyonce, and your name was Beyonce because that's your maiden name. And you go to school as this pretty little curly, cute-haired girl, and the nun says to you what on the first day?
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Can you imagine going to school and your first teacher says to you, you don't belong here? You don't belong here. Yeah. Yeah. That's a life-defining moment.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
But it made me fight, though. And also, well, it made you a fighter. That's so interesting that it made you a fighter because, you know, when I read that story, I thought I would have shrunk. It would have made me so insecure because I was raised like your mother was raised. I was raised to respect authority.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And if authority said this, then you've got to obey and you've got to, you know, color within the lines and not break the rules. It did the opposite to you. It made you fearless and a fighter.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Toasted almonds in your coffee. Don't you love that? And now I'm just so happy to be here to tell you what my 113th book club pick is. It's an intimate and revealing look into an extraordinary American life and family. It is a memoir. And it is a page turner about legacy. It's about love. It's about loss.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Welcome back to more of my conversation. Several things I thought were defining moments. There is a story where the nun punishes you and you run across the street to home thinking your mother is going to stand up for you.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Well, another huge defining moment, I thought, was I couldn't believe this, that your mom didn't stand up for you in this moment. Tell us the dress story.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
No, it set up a lot of guilt, Tina, because the nun said to you, you're a mean little girl. You don't want to give your dress to her. So, I mean, I think for the nuns to set you up to lead you to believe that you're going to be the little girl that's going to be a part of that ceremony, you come with the dress and they say now you have to give the dress to the other person. Right.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
It's about perseverance and the wisdom that is passed down through generations, especially from mother to daughter. It's called Matriarch. And we have the matriarch, Miss Tina Nose. First of all, I was saying this to your editor, that this is a beautiful book. Talking about you can't judge a book by cover.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Especially when you're a little girl.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Yeah. But again, I can see where that moment of the nun saying, you're mean and you're so selfish would also instill in you this whole, I'm not good enough, I'm not worthy, I don't belong, which is the first thing that she was trying to tell you. You know what I thought when I was reading? I said, they knew you were cute. They knew that your mother was a major contributor to the school.
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
And as you say in matriarch, that your parents were like your whole family was like indentured servants to that school. Everybody's working and cleaning the yard and your father's driving for them and your mother's making every single thing in the church for them. So I think that they were jealous of you. Don't you think that?
The Oprah Podcast
Tina Knowles: "Matriarch" | Oprah's Book Club
Let's go to the audience. Like we said, you and I are almost exactly the same age, and from the time... when children were seen and not heard, but you made sure that you were heard. That's how you got your nickname, Badass Teenie B. And you write that God had given my mother the most cautious, you said, most cautious woman I would ever know, a girl without fear. So where's Tiffany?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
And now with the help of Zepbound, I understand it, and bariatric surgery that you've lost 165 pounds. Wow, that is another whole full person. Congratulations. How has your life changed?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
On this episode of the Oprah Podcast, my conversation continues with Dr. Anya Yasterboff, an endocrinologist and associate professor at the Yale School of Medicine. And we're going to be joined by licensed psychologist, Dr. Rachel Goldman.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
I asked you to repeat that because I know that that's going to resonate with a lot of people. When are you going to let someone else help you? And I say that to everybody who is in the struggle right now with obesity and If you could have fixed it, you would have. That's right. If it could have been fixed, because like Michaela and like myself, you've done every diet.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
You've been through every program. You have boiled the soups. You have eaten the grapefruits. You have pulled the skin off the chicken and steamed that broccoli. If you could have done it, you would have done it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
I'm so happy for you. I am really, truly happy for you because I see how beautiful you are. and how vibrantly you are now letting yourself be seen. You would not have worn that 165 pounds ago. You would not have even put on those earrings 165 pounds ago. I mean, I know. And I just, I rejoice in your newfound sense of self and sense of well-being.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
For this episode, our guests asked us to share their before and after weight loss pictures because they believe the photos are an important part of their journey. Welcome to part two of our conversation about weight loss medications. I'm so glad we get another chance to open up the subject for people who are still confused.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
I really do, because I know what the struggle is like. What's it been like for you being transitioning into this? I mean, 165 pounds over how much time?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Wow. You lost another full whole person in two and a half years. And I know people's reactions to you. It's unbelievable, right?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Well, I want to bring in Dr. Rachel Goldman now, who goes by Dr. Rachel. There's Dr. Anya, Dr. Rachel. And Dr. Rachel, hi again, is zooming in from New York. She's a licensed psychologist in private practice and a clinical assistant professor in the Department of Psychiatry at the NYU Grossman School of Medicine. So, Dr. Rachel, you see what Michaela is talking about, right?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
That's right. I like what Michaela said. The reason why it's so angering is because you've always been this person. It's not like you became another person. Michaela, you say not everyone in your life has also been supportive, right? As you expected. How so?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
I'm here with Dr. Anya Yastribov, who is an endocrinologist and an associate professor at the Yale School of Medicine. And I wanted to introduce you to one of my producers, longtime producers, Brian So, Brian, tell us why you started GLP-1s. I've seen the transformation. But when I first started talking about it a year ago, you seemed reluctant. You were like, I'm going to wait and see.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Underscore that. I loved myself so much. I wanted to make this change. That is that's powerful.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
I think a lot of people who have friends like us who were overweight, you get accustomed to them being a certain way. And there is no question about it that the culture feels that people who are overweight are inferior. There's no question that that is the case. And I don't see how...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Some of that, even if you have the best of friends, some of that doesn't also get interpreted in relationships, not your most intimate relationships, but in other relationships. And so being the fat friend serves a lot of people because you're right. The attention isn't on you. It's always on them. That's what I think. But let's ask Dr. Rachel. She has a degree in it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Is this a typical reaction, though, from some friends? There are friends who are just genuinely, genuinely happy for you. And then there are other friends who are like, oh, you think now you must think you're your celebrity or now you must think you're cute or now you must think, you know what I'm talking about, Michaela, right?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
So anger and sadness and happiness, are those all normal feelings to be feeling, Dr. Rachel?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
I'm going to think. And I, you know, have my own burdens to carry and want people to do whatever is good for them. And so I stopped right there when I realized that you were not ready and it wasn't my business to tell you what to do. What convinced you to do it?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Got it. Thank you so much, Michaela. Thank you for joining us.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
That means so much to me. Thank you. I appreciate you. More with Dr. Anya and Dr. Rachel. We're talking about the new world of weight loss medications after these messages.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Thank you for being here. What happens in the aftermath of losing a significant amount of weight? Dr. Anya and Dr. Rachel are taking more questions from viewers and listeners. Anna is a recent college graduate who says that after losing 80 pounds, she finds that guys treat her differently too. Anna joins us from Willimantic, Connecticut. Hi, Anna. What have you noticed?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
I'm still getting over Michaela, looking at the magazines all those years. Okay. So what's going on with you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
We're taping an ABC special called Shame, Blame, and the Weight Loss Revolution. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Do you have a question you wanted to ask Dr. Anya or Dr. Rachel?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Rachel, you want to take that?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Mourning the loss. I remember you said that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
And do you have a lot of patients who share similar concerns when they first start dating like Anna's sharing?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
And I would think so. You know, you all are aware that there are a lot of physicians who, And, you know, providers who aren't even very familiar with the drugs themselves, you know, they were just handed the drugs through the drug companies or whatever, and they don't even understand themselves how the drugs work or what to expect.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
And I just think there needs to be more education for the physicians themselves.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
And I know a lot of people that are not in Los Angeles and not in New York, but are in rural areas and so forth. And their doctors don't know anything about it. And their doctors are still telling them to go on a diet.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Yes, and I love this question of what are you waiting for? Because in another conversation, we talked to people who... put off everything in their life, waiting for the weight to disappear, waiting for the right diet, waiting for the moment, waiting, waiting, waiting.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Thank you. Thank you, Ana. Thank you so much.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
And enjoy the flirting. Flirt back. Flirt back, okay? 27-year-old Jewel is joining us from New York City and her mother, Marissa, from St. Louis. The last time we spoke on the ABC special, Shane Blame and the Weight Loss Revolution. Jewel, I remember you telling, look, I remember you telling us your highest weight was around 390. And now what has happened?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Wow. And how has your life changed?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
I mean, even the tone of your voice is different than when I first spoke to you and the state of weight. Marisa, what changes have you seen in your daughter since she started on these medications? What have you noticed? I bet it's been a roller coaster for you two too.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
And when you think about all the times in your life, you delayed, you delayed, you delayed really the living experience, the vitality of what life is here to bring us because you were waiting on the weight. Yeah. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Girl, what? So, Jewel, do you have a question for either Dr. Anya or Dr. Rachel?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
When I first talked to them, they were debating whether to even use. And Marissa at the time was like, I don't want my daughter on drugs. I don't want that happening. I'm not sure. But in that audience, I saw Marissa's face. She had the same light bulb moment I did when we heard obesity is a disease. Yes. Your body's going to always take you back to that point. That's that was the revelation.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
And by underwater, you're meaning holding your breath underwater and you're going to eventually rise. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Great to see you all again. Thank you, Jewel.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Thank you, Marissa. I thank you for joining me on the Oprah podcast. We're going to get back to more of my conversation with Dr. Anya when we come back. Thank you for taking time to listen to what life is like after a dramatic weight loss. We're back with Dr. Anya and Dr. Rachel.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Maggie and her mom, Erica, are joining us from Marceline, Missouri, and they appeared on the ABC Weight Loss Special, too. Erica told us about the decision for Maggie to take... Hi, y'all. You look so great. Hi. Oh, wow. Maggie to take... GLP-1 medications when she was just 12 years old because Maggie was nearing 300 pounds when she was 12 years old.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
And now she's lost 155 pounds and had excess skin removed, I hear. How are you doing, Maggie?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Oh, great. So how has your life changed now?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Yeah. The last time we talked, you had made the cheerleading team. That was so cool. And now you have a job working at the nursing home. And I heard you really like that job. It takes a special kind of person to work at a nursing home and feel comfortable and be able to give a service there. I'm sure they love having you there.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
And you're still in the weight losing process? Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Yes. Erica, what advice do you have for other parents who have teenagers who are struggling with their weight?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Yes, yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
And I know your daughter's glad you didn't give up.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Yeah. Yeah. And I, and you know, it's gotta be so hard, Erica, because you knew for a long time, I remember you telling me that you all were sitting at the dinner table and was it some kind of pork, something she was eating before she even had teeth. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
And how do you feel?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
I mean... Brian. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Yeah, and one of the things that was the big aha for me on the last podcast that I did with Dr. Anya was recognizing that just because you've lost the weight, you haven't solved the problem of obesity, that you still carry the obesity with you. And it's just like managing your blood pressure. When you're taking blood pressure medication,
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
If you stop taking blood pressure medication, your blood pressure goes back up. And the same thing is true with these obesity management medications and that you will always have the obesity and having the courage, as you have done, to be the kind of mother who did not give up on your child. you did not give up.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
You have fought the fight and dealt with the doctors who didn't believe, who didn't know, who said, you know, you should watch your own weight and you should watch what she's eating and all everybody just needs to steam some more broccoli, you know, and keep moving. So I'm so, I applaud you for that. I applaud you for that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
And I just hope you have the most wondrous best life possible for yourself, Maggie.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Yes. Good to see you both again.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Bye guys. Before we go, Dr. Rachel, any final thoughts?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
You're over 50 now.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Or Amy from our show last week who started her own online community with people who are going through the same thing. I think that's huge. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
You were a babe when you started with me.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
And eventually, I think you get to the place where you can own it, because I noticed, you know, when we started out with Brian, he gave us the you know, how much weight he lost and what his number was before. And I know that for myself, And everybody I've ever talked to about this, that there's so much shame around the number. There's so much shame around the number.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
When you were a babe, yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Even going to the doctor, you're standing on one foot on the scale to take off five pounds, you know, because there's just so much shame around the number. And being able to reduce that shame and just to be able to call it what it is, is so liberating.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
But it takes time. It does take time. It takes time. Everybody should do it in their own time, in their own way.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
So everybody knows when you're losing weight.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Well, I think my biggest takeaway from today is that the medical community needs to be made aware that it is not a – you don't fix the problem just because you give somebody the medication. That there needs to be an overall psychosocial, mental approach to taking these medications, especially if you have a lot of weight to lose because –
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
You shift the way you see yourself and other people certainly shift the way that they see you. And that takes adjustment.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Okay. You used to have three desserts, I heard, right?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
The reason why I wanted to do the show is because exactly what Dr. Rachel said. Everybody who goes through a great weight loss is going to experience some kind of psychosocial change and you need to be prepared for it. That's right. And they've been doing it for years with bariatric surgery. They just are not doing it with these medications. That's right.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Every time I talk about this topic, I think that we are barely scratching the surface of the impact of these medications. Dr. Rachel and Dr. Anya, I thank you so much for... your valuable insights here today. And thank you to all of our guests. Thanks, everybody, for listening and for watching us here on YouTube.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
I hope you'll subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. We'll see you next week. Go well, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Yeah, I remember when we first talked about this, you were so reluctant because you said about the side effects. So have you had any side effects?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Yes, and isn't it amazing when you think, oh, this is how you all have been doing all this time.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
It's so freeing. You know, a friend of mine shared that it's like, a friend of mine who is on the medication said, I've become ambivalent to food. It doesn't rule everything in my life. I've become ambivalent to it. It doesn't mean you don't enjoy it. It doesn't mean you don't enjoy it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
So people who have the fear, like you had the fear of losing your enjoyment and pleasure from it, doesn't mean that at all. You still enjoy it. You just don't want as much. That's right.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
But in doing that... That's exactly what Dr. Anya was saying about when you get blood pressure medication, they tell you to lower the salt. When you're getting medication for diabetes, they tell you to lower your glycemic intake. That's right. And so eat less sugar. So the same thing is here, leaning into proteins, leaning into healthier food. And what I have found, it's easier to do.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Everything's easier to do, right?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
The other day I was satiated by a handful of blueberries and I'm like, what has happened to me? Like blueberries are like a delicacy.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
These blueberries are so delicious. Tell me. You know, I've talked about this over the years, and Brian's been a producer for me for 22 years, so you've heard me talk a lot about the way even being a known person in the world, how the world treats you differently when you're overweight. And...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
I've always thought it's easier for men because people look and they excuse a big belly, for example, on a guy whereas, you know, on a woman they would not. Have you noticed a difference in how the world receives you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Well, I wasn't talking about your belly. I was talking about guys who carry bellies.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Do you think they would not have struck up a conversation with you 70 pounds heavier?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
And so... It never would have happened because, is that because you were hiding in plain sight? Yes. Or you feel that people don't notice you when you're showing your, wearing your obesity?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Hi again, everybody, and thank you for listening to the Oprah Podcast. And hello to everybody who's watching us on YouTube. In the few years since GLP-1 medications were approved by the FDA for use for obesity, we have seen how these drugs can result in dramatic weight loss. But when you lose up to 100 pounds or even more, how does that impact the self-image you had for most of your life?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Yes. And I'm just so thrilled for you, Brian. I'm just so thrilled and so happy for you and that you made the decision, really. It's a decision to save your own life and to lengthen your life and to live more productively, period.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Bye. All right. See you in the control room after. One half of U.S. adults are saying now that they would like to take a weight loss medication. And yet only 12% of Americans have ever taken one. I do think 12% is quite a lot in the past year because when I announced last January, I think... I was like an anomaly, an anomaly in that I was willing to say it. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
And I remember Joseph, who does social media for me, said, all these haters are coming after you now. In a year, it will be normalized.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Well, I hope to continue to have an impact and let the haters hate on because, as I've shared before, my mother was an insulin-taking diabetic for most of her adult life. And if this were the dawning of insulin and I had a microphone to tell people what insulin could do for diabetics, that's what I would be doing. And I feel as strongly about that as I do about these obesity medications.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Absolutely. So researchers have found that GLP-1 medications, we talked a little bit about this, may also help treat addiction, cardiovascular disease. We know that they help prevent strokes. They have general anti-inflammatory properties. Brian was saying after the first week of taking it, he noticed the inflammation going down.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
And I think the public is confused about this because you hear that, Liz, and it seems like a miracle drugs. What are the facts? Mm-hmm.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
It seems to me, which is another discussion for yet another opportunity to have a podcast, but it seems to me... that the insurance companies would be running towards these drugs because if you're going to be able to have an impact on over 200 other obesity-related diseases that you would want to prevent.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Yes, I am thinking about the impact. And we don't have the answers because we're at the dawning.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
Right. Thank you so much for explaining that. Sure. Thank you for being here with me. We are talking to people who've lost a significant amount of weight with the help of GLP-1 medications. What is their life like now? More with Dr. Anya right after this. GLP-1 medications have been life-changing for so many people. So what happens after you finally lose the weight? How does the world see you now?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
That's what we're talking about on the Oprah Podcast with Dr. Anya. And we're joined by psychologist Dr. Rachel Goldman. I want to get back to... how this is a holistic change for so many people. Michaela is joining us from Oxford, Ohio. Hi, Michaela. Hi, so much for having me today. Thank you. You look beautiful. Aren't you dressed up? I love that dress and the necklace, the color.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Ania Jastreboff on How People Treat You Differently After Weight Loss
So you started dieting at age eight and you were labeled the fat cheerleader. So let's hear that story. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Hi, everybody, and welcome to the Oprah Podcast. I just want to say thank you for taking the time to be with us because we're talking about a lot of good things here that I sincerely hope can enhance your own life. Many of you have either bought or maybe heard of Jonathan Haidt's mega bestselling book, The Anxious Generation. And if you haven't heard, then you're late to the party because
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
So one of the things that Jonathan Haidt says in The Anxious Generation is that social media has literally rewired childhood as we know it. And he's back on this podcast this time with a big announcement about his next book. Welcome, Jonathan Haidt and your new co-author, science writer Catherine Price. So tell us the news, Jonathan.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Yeah, I get emotional. I really hear your struggle. I think I think what you're saying, Catherine, is so important. And I could see and hear in Lindsay's voice your own concern and your own questions about it. But you're going to override that. override that because you want to make everything okay and want to have peace in the family. I get that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
But Pete, I understand you work in tech and you have also seen, with your own eyes, experience the detrimental side of what it can do. And what have you seen and how do you plan to keep your kids safe from those negative influences?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
So lots of food for thought. But I heard you say you're not planning on getting a smartphone. Is that what you're saying? You are getting a smartphone, but they're not going to be exposed to social media.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Yes. Yeah. Well, thank you, Pete and Lindsay. Thank you so much. Have you read The Ancient Generation? Have you read it? Do you have the book? Okay, fantastic.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Thank you. Thank you both for being here. Good luck. Good luck. Thank you so much. Thank you. Last year in the Oprah Daily Life class I hosted with Jonathan, we met the Sorrell family, who at the time did not allow their children to have smartphones or social media. Michael, Natalie, and their 14-year-old son, Mike, join us now from Paul Quinn College in Dallas, where Michael is president.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Michael, have you had any second thoughts about your decision?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
No second thoughts. You know, Mike, I often think of you. I don't know. I was somewhere recently. I was saying, I wonder if that if that young boy, Mike, if he ever talked his dad into getting the phone and how is he doing in the world? How are you doing in the world, Mike?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Got some more time. Got some more time. Natalie, you feel like giving a child access to social media, you said this when we talked last year, is like giving them fireworks. How so?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
So does Mike have a flip phone or any phone or no phone?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
And there at the university, you have yourself seen the... manifestation of what this has done, right? Absolutely.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
And so, Catherine, how does this book differ from The Anxious Generation in that it is actually speaking to the kids themselves? Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
So so so I'm just curious is how you all have helped Mike navigate the space of all my friends have it, but I don't have it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
You don't have any fear of, as was expressed prior with other parents here, of of him not being, you know, adjusted or being the outcast or being ostracized by other kids? You know, zero.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Okay. All right. Do you agree, Mike? How you doing?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
You do.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
You agree that you're popular. What do you want to say, Jonathan and Catherine, to this? I mean, these parents, I love these parents. These parents are, you know, steadfast. They are not afraid of their kids being upset with them. They have not at all. Are they afraid of their kids being upset with them? And have created this opportunity for their children to still engage in other ways. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
I love you too much to worry about if you're going to like me. Okay.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
This is the story. This is a model, model story. Sorel family, applause to you. Applause to all of you. And Mike, I'm glad you, I'm so happy to know that you're popular. Popular. I'm so happy to know that. All right. Good to catch up with you all. Thank you so much. Thank you. Okay. And he's a handsome boy, too. My God.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Yeah, I predict that the girls are going to be all over him because he's going to be like one of the few who knows how to actually have a conversation and connect. I am thankful that you took the time to listen and meet up with me here on the Oprah Podcast, where we're having conversations that I hope can serve to inspire you or enhance your life.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
When we come back, we'll hear from a teenager who made a courageous and unlikely decision for her future by giving up her smartphone.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
And Catherine, I hear you're consulting with members of Gen Z for this project. And what are you hearing from them?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Hey, thanks for being here. Welcome back to my conversation with authors Jonathan Haidt and Katherine Price. We're talking about what parents can do to help their kids engage in real life again. They have co-authored a book that can help you. It's called The Amazing Generation, How to Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen-Filled World.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Logan is a 19-year-old who made a very bold decision four years ago. She joins us now from the campus of Oberlin College in Ohio. Hi, Logan. Tell us what happened. Hi. Hi.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Correct. Catherine? Yeah, something actually did actually flip in her brain. The dopamine hits were no longer there. That's what happened. Right.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Wow. And so now I hear you've started a movement to encourage other teens to do the same, to give up their dependence on their smartphones. Tell us about that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Catherine, what do you want to say to Logan? Logan, bravo.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Fantastic.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Thank you so much. Logan, bravo. Bravo, bravo, bravo, bravo, bravo. Great. I hope you stay with us because I'll be back with Jonathan Haidt and Catherine Price talking about how young people can take back their childhoods from technology. That's after a quick break.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
because this is a book that all parents are using to help them navigate the firestorms going on in their homes about smartphones and social media for their children.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
honored that you chose to join us here on the Oprah podcast. I'm with Jonathan Haidt and Katherine Price talking about their forthcoming book, The Amazing Generation, How to Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen-Filled World. Katherine and Jonathan, what do you want to say before we go?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Jonathan Haidt and Katherine Price's new book, The Amazing Generation, How to Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen-Filled World, will be available wherever books are sold. You can pre-order it now. Thanks to all of you who were a part of today's conversation. Pete, Lindsay, Logan, the Sorrell family. Go well, everybody. Thank you so much.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
You can subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
I find it really interesting because if you're a kid who's 13 years old, you're addicted to your phone and you're not at a point where you even realize what you're missing out on because you're addicted to your phone. Because you've had the phone since you were 10 or since you were 11 and you've just had the phone. So you never played. You never had those experiences.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
On this episode, I'm talking with social psychologist and number one New York Times bestselling author, Jonathan Haidt, who offers solutions and hope for parents and teens who are struggling with the negative impact of social media and smartphones.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
And in the book, Catherine, you point out that many tech executives don't let their own kids have smartphones. So why should we, the public, be paying attention to this? I think that's so interesting.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Yeah, I think it's so important because I know that so many of you parents who are listening and watching to us now, you just get into battles about it. You just have arguments about it and it is turned into this area of friction in the home. And I think on our last podcast with Jonathan, there was a young boy, Nick, who's 17 years old, uses it in the shower.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
and can't walk 20 feet without being on the phone, his mother said. And yet, when you started to explain what is happening to you in the brain, that you're being sucked in, and to the young woman, Uma, who was on that past show, when you started talking about you're actually less intelligent and less able to function in the world, I think explaining it in a way that kids can see
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
For themselves, the disadvantage is certainly more helpful than just arguing about it. Would you say, Jonathan? Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
We're joined by Katherine Price, an award-winning science journalist and author of several bestselling books, including How to Break Up with Your Phone and The Power of Fun.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
And so the creators of these media platforms, they are specifically going for the dopamine hit? Is that what you're saying?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Okay, great. Well... It's certainly great to be here with you all on the Oprah podcast for what I believe is a vital conversation for all families. Do you remember what childhood was like before smartphones and social media took over our lives? We're talking about how to bring back some of that fun and freedom with social psychologist Jonathan Haidt and science journalist Katherine Price.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
We will be back in a moment.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast, and thank you for being here. I am with bestselling authors Jonathan Haidt and Katherine Price. You may have heard of Jonathan's book, The Anxious Generation. For the last year, it's been a huge bestseller. Now Jonathan has written a new book called The Amazing Generation, How to Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen-Filled World. Let's get back to our conversation.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
We'll hear from teens who've come up with their own practical and creative ideas to avoid falling into the smartphone trap.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
We wanted to talk to parents and teens around the country to hear their thoughts. And Lindsay and Pete are the parents of a fifth grade girl and a seventh grade boy. They are joining us from Concord, Massachusetts. And I understand you've decided to give phones to your kids when they turn 13. Is that correct?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
But you have some concerns. Lindsay, let's start with you. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome to our conversation. Lindsay and Pete.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Kids Can Choose Fun and Freedom in a Screen Filled World
Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Because you love sentences. I love sentences.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
When you finished that sentence, you just went, yeah. I'm going to have a matcha latte.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
An absolute masterpiece, a wonder of character and craft. Beautiful, brilliant. One of the most anticipated books of 2025. That's just some of the literary praise for Eric Buchner's novel, Dream State. It's set among the serene lakes and picturesque mountains of Montana, which is its own dream state. This is a story about Cece, who's arrived alone in town one month early to plan her wedding.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
But not being able to say it. But if you said that, they'd go, ooh.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
And that's what you mean by the rhythm?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Yeah. I don't know that, but okay.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Yeah, okay. Okay. So that's what you meant by it's a song without words, okay? An instrumental you knew by heart, you learned the rhythm together, and you practiced it all the time, because that's what guys do. They're doing that all the time for days and months and years. And it was a swing of your silences, the karaoke track behind the gibberish you sang. Explain that to me.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
The karaoke track behind the gibberish you sang.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Well, that's why this is a brilliant sentence. Really good sentence, sir.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Thanks for listening. We'll be right back with more of my conversation.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Welcome back to more of my conversation.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
I think the way that you explore the mysteries of marriage will resonate with a lot of people. Did you all think, married people in here? A lot of married people? Okay. Resonated, right? I think this is such an astonishing section on page 289. You say, they'd been married 24 years to the day, and yet these spaces still widened between them. Ones they didn't have the energy to cross.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Then out of the blue, on their anniversary no less, he discovered he couldn't speak to her properly, or really at all. He might as well have married a plant. It was heartbreaking. It broke Garrett's heart. Sometimes marriage felt like a dazzling present.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
It's also about her fiancé, Charlie, who's a doctor back in Los Angeles, and his best friend Garrett, who just happens to be the officiant for their wedding. When the tumultuous wedding day arrives, Cece makes a shocking choice that affects everybody in her life. That's when Dream State becomes a story about a love triangle spanning 50 years.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
They didn't want to soil or scratch, didn't have the courage to actually use, and so they locked it up in the garage where neither of them could touch it. Okay. Have you been able to crack the code, the secret to marriage?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Okay, Heather, where are you? Okay. Okay.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
He is off of that sofa after three months. And what did it dream state? Honey, I was reading this book, and now you can come off the sofa. I feel better. Yeah. Really? That really was it?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Well, that is good for a novel to do that.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
This is a story of opportunity, grief, commitment, family... marriage, longing, regrets, parenthood, connection, human nature, friendship, and life. I sat down at Starbucks in New York City with the author and a cafe full of readers. Married people in here? A lot of married people? Resonated, right? The audience told us why they connected so deeply to these beautifully written characters.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
And she's a writer, too, and you both love sentences. So that makes that loving sentences.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Sahai is here, and she has a question.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
You're running. You don't have your computer or a pen. So you're running and you've got to get back and put that down, right?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
This is one of my other favorite quotes in the book. On page 278, life was a long, incompetent search to get back to a feeling you had when you were six. Didn't we all love that? How many of you underlined that or noted that? And the reason I liked it so much is because you didn't say four. You didn't say five or eight or ten. You said six. And everybody, don't we all remember six?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Hello? Hello, is this Eric? Yes, it is. Eric, hi, it's Oprah Winfrey. Oh my God. Yeah. Oh my God.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
I mean, because it's like first grade. It's you're feeling yourself. You got your patent leather shoes on for Easter. I mean, where did this line come from?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Erica, this was one of your favorites too, right?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Yeah. And so you remember you were six. Were you writing then? Did you love sentences at six?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
And I want my picture on the back. Yeah, that's really great. You say this about parenting, what a mystery your own children were. You gave them everything and it was like tossing a coin into a well. I think so many parents relate to that feeling. Does this phrase come from your experience as a father?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
That's why Eric Buchner's Dream State is my 111th Oprah's Book Club selection. So we don't want to give away the plot, but my hope is that people buy and read the book Dream State and then come spend some time with us on this podcast to hear how you wrote this piece of art it really is. But for now, I want you to set up for us the characters and the plot. What's the story?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Thanks for listening. We'll be right back. Welcome back to more of my conversation. Wonderful. Okay, Julia, where are you?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
And as one of the main characters, Garrett, nears the end of his life, he shares this regret that he should have enjoyed himself more. His only youth. Wow. Nobody wants to be Garrett in that moment. I should have enjoyed myself more. His only youth. Do you have those same regrets or know somebody who has those regrets?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
You're lifing. Yeah. Enjoying life. Enjoying life. Enjoying life. Trying to. Thank you. Enjoying lifing with us here in the Starbucks cafe. Thank you. That's why you're out having coffee with us today. So where did that line come from?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Yeah. What do you all think? That she would have had regret had she married Charlie? Yes. Why do you say so?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
And first of all, how did this story come to you?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Yes. Yes. And so she was either going to experience the regret as she or experience the guilt, experience the guilt also. Okay.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Clara Keegan just said this about small things like these, that she's terrible, too. There's the writing, and then there's the titling.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Old Light. All right, I don't even see where that comes from.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
We didn't read the poem, so we're picking up the book. We don't know what you're talking about. Okay.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Yes, I love this sentence on page 371. Maybe marriage was like that. Gradually, you renamed the world and created a new one, one only you could enter. You turned flowers into money, took the lullaby of unexciting days and called it happiness. I just love that sentence. And I know you gave yourself a round of applause when you finished that sentence. The lullaby of exciting days.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Yes, of exciting days. Where did that line come from? I love that. The lullaby of exciting days and called it happiness.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
That's what you did get at. Beautiful sentences. Thank you so much. We're glad you love sentences. Eric Puckner, thank you so much for Dream State. And I know all of us will be thinking about it and talking about it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. So buy the book, Dream State, grab some friends, head to Starbucks for a matcha latte and dive in.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
And we're so glad that you were able to join us here at Starbucks today, everybody. A big thank you to our wonderful Starbucks partners for supporting us. Thank you all for listening and watching. And we hope you'll all join our community and become friends.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
a part of all of our conversations, subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Bye, everybody. Dream state.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Okay. Well, that's good to know because we know what happens in the story. Yes. But we're not saying. Okay. Our audience has read the book and came ready with questions. Kim, where are you? Okay. There you are.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Well, it's great to have you here. I told you we were going to be in at Starbucks, Books in Conversation. And you know what you said? Oh, will I be a part of that?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
I had it this summer, and I so related. And, like, we all were at the dinner table, then somebody else got it, and somebody else got it. It is the worst possible feeling. I thought I was going to die, and I thought, death is going to be okay.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Just let me go. Just let me go. Yeah, it's really bad.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
That's why I don't know how Charlie stood it.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Anybody here ever had it? Norovirus? No? Oh, okay. You have? Yeah. Yeah. Coming out of both ends. It's terrible. It's not pleasant. Yeah. But I lost six pounds. I was so happy. Small wins. I thought, wow, this is great. Hit the goal. All right.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
The flower girl was throwing up. Oh, boy. And what do people do when that happens?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
So this novel started because of the no world virus at the weddings? Yeah. Wow. Okay.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Okay. And that just came to you. I want to write about a marriage plot that is the wrong marriage.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Hi, everybody. Welcome to Oprah's Book Club, presented by Starbucks. Hello. We're here in the gorgeous New York City, Starbucks, and we are having some interesting books, conversation, and coffee. And we are all readers here. Hello, readers.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Okay. We've been asking this question. If you could have coffee with any of the characters in the book, who would it be?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
How many of you are Cece coffee people?
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
No, you're going to meet at a Starbucks and have the coffee, okay? But you would have coffee with Cece. I would have had coffee with Jasper. Okay? Anybody else? Who would you choose to have coffee with? Yes? Yes? Jasper too? Jasper people. Jasper people. Okay? Garrett people. Okay? Charlie people. No, Charlie. Atlanta people. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Very good. All right.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
So you said that you were drawn to characters who find it difficult to navigate through life because those are the people who you often are drawn to in your own life. And so that was also a part of the writing for this.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
I think that your neighborhood Starbucks is a great place to get together with friends with a copy of my new book club pick and connect over a delicious cup of curated coffee. The pairing for this book is a matcha latte. My 111th book club pick is a real page turner and an emotional roller coaster. Wouldn't you say? It is the novel Dream State by Eric Hockner.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Yeah, I think the scenery, Montana. First of all, Montana is having a moment right now. And I think all of it feels like its own character.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
I think also the desire to be authentic comes through a lot in the book.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
I remember in the beginning, I was struck by that sentence where she was being complimented by all the teachers because she wanted to be a pediatric neurosurgeon and then realize that she just liked the sound of it and liked the way it sounded and the way people treat you when you say, I'm going to be a pediatric neurosurgeon versus... actually what that really means. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
So there's a lot of play on what it means to be authentic in this book.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
Well, one of the things I think we all appreciated about this book are that the characters are going through so much of what we all have experienced in our own lives. Like, where am I going? And what does this mean? And how am I defining myself? And am I just defining myself? Is this really real to me? You were able to capture that so well.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
And also, I think male friendship, which I'd never thought of this this way before, You say on page 140, male friendship was all about rhythm. It was a kind of song without words, an instrumental you knew by heart. You learned the rhythm together and practiced it all the time for days and months and years, perfecting it by feel.
The Oprah Podcast
Eric Puchner: “Dream State” | Oprah’s Book Club
It was the swing of your silences, the karaoke track behind the gibberish you sang. What the hell were you thinking then when you wrote that? How long did it take you to come up with that? First of all, you have the idea, and then you have to form the words to express this idea to us. How long did that take?
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Yeah, as you were sharing your story, I was thinking, okay, at least you didn't have the responsibility of getting pregnant and having a child and having that alter your life. Because when we were talking about these kinds of moral regrets and foundational regrets, I was thinking, I'm sure that there are a lot of people. Sure.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
who were promiscuous or whatever in their early years and had child after child after child without even knowing what that responsibility would be like, and you hold regrets for it. Not regrets because you have the children, but regrets that you didn't make better choices that would allow you to better serve your children. So...
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
I also think it's important for you to go back and understand what happened to you, a book that Dr. Bruce Perry and I co-authored together. What happened to you to cause you to be in what you call your boy crazy phase? Because that also happened to me. And up until I was like, I was sexually assaulted from 10 to 14. And during that time, like 13 to 14, I became really sexually promiscuous.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
And for many years, I blamed myself for that promiscuity. Like I was a bad girl. What I now know, what I now know is if you have been assaulted as a child and and, you know, led into that whole sexual realm, that is almost a natural thing that shows up with young girls.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
And so when I see young girls that are labeled, you know, you're a bad girl or she's, they used to say in my generation, you're just too fast. You're too fast. You're too fast. I always know when it's very, very young that there's something else going on beneath the surface there that's causing that.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
And you had mentioned that your father was not there and you suffered that loss and lots of times you deal with it in different ways. When you're a young kid, you don't know the reason why I'm acting out is I'm looking for somebody to love me and to value me and to say that I'm okay because I'm not getting it from my father or my mother. So if I were you, I'd look back at the why
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
And that releases, number one, for me, released a lot of the shame and certainly me blaming myself for something that happened that basically I had no control over at that time.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
So everybody, thanks for joining us on this podcast. We're talking about today something few people ever talk about. That's why I want to talk about it. We're talking about regrets, regrets. And I'm joined by the man who literally wrote the book on regrets, journalist and the author of seven New York Times bestsellers, Daniel Pink.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
But you were doing that, you were acting out for a reason. You were acting out for a reason. That happened to you for a reason. And so, you know, you shouldn't, you know, try to figure that out here with us, but you should work on that for yourself. What is the reason that you were acting out in that way? Thank you for being willing to share with us today. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Thank you. Okay. Thanks, Tanya. Kathy is a mother of two who also has deep regrets about time loss. Kathy, what's your story?
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Kathy, Kathy, Kathy. Thank you so much for being willing to share. And this is a podcast about the power of regret. Daniel Pink has written a really important book with a profound study about regrets all over the world. So naturally, you're going to have tears. And we appreciate you being so open to share today because you're going to –
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
you're going to really help a lot of other people to see themselves differently because of what you've shared here. What category is this?
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Daniel Pink began his career as a Yale Law School graduate working in politics and government in Washington, D.C., And after two years as Al Gore's chief speechwriter, Daniel decided to venture out on his own, an experience he wrote about in his Bass Company article, Free Agent Nation, which became his first book.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Well, one of the things that really has struck me about what you were saying earlier, I can't believe that this is what it took. And yeah, this is what it took. This is what it took. This is what it took for you to slow down and to stop and to want to live a more present-filled life and to be there in a way for the rest of your family and for yourself in ways that you could not before.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
So yes, this is what it took. And the reason you know that is because this is now where you are. You've had that realization. And so I say, bless your husband for being able to bring this to light for you so that the rest of your days can be spent in a fullness of being for yourself that you would not have had had you not had this experience.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Since then, Daniel has written six more books, including Drive, To Sell is Human, and another one of my favorites, A Whole New Mind.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
This was his parting gift to you, not to be regretted, but to be embraced again. Yeah. Not to be regretted.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Yeah, that's great. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Kathy. Thank you. Thank you. All right, Kelly, a mom to one teenage son says that she is constantly haunted by the what ifs, the what ifs, the what ifs. Tell us about that, Kelly.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
He's one of the world's most in-demand speakers and has delivered more than 1,200 lectures on six continents.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
I heard you told the producers that you feel like you've spent most of your adulthood in the passenger seat. And so you're asking, what if you'd actually taken the driver's seat?
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
I am so delighted to speak to you again. It's been years. I am so glad to be back talking to you. Yeah. And I have to tell you, I really appreciated this book about regrets because when I saw it and I first came across it because we had used many of your quotes in our The Life You Want becoming unstuck journal and talking about your philosophy. And I was like, you know what? It's the thing that...
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Well, you're not alone, because in Daniel's study of people throughout the world, this is a big this is the what ifs is a big, big, big, big, big.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
And you were mentioning your art. Is that your art behind you, that painting? Did you do that painting? Oh.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
I love that barn. You know what that reminds me of? Of a Harper barn. You know, a hopper. Hopper. You know Hopper.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Yes, yes, yes, yes. So that is what Daniel Pink just said about your work. Edward Hopper meets Andrew Wyeth.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. Okay. Get in the driver's seat, Kelly. Yeah. Get in the driver's seat.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Kelly, take the wheel. Kelly, take the wheel. Thank you so much. Lori now joins us. Lori, hi there. Zooming in from Dallas, Texas. Your biggest regret? Hi there. We love that hot pink girl. Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Everybody feels at some point in their life, even though there's a Frank Sinatra song that says regrets. I've had a few, but too few to mention. A lot of people have a lot. And if you have a deep regret that follows you your whole life, a lot of people can't get over it. And so that's why I wanted to talk to you.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
So is it because now you're regretting not having more security? Yeah. Yes. More security and a safety net.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
So your main question to Daniel is what? What do you want from him today?
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
How did you even come up with this idea to focus on this specific human emotion of regret?
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
You do it from where you are. Exactly. You do it from where you are, exactly where you are. Extending yourself in grace and kindness in the smallest ways and then... any other way you can, and let that be your goal, is how do I use my life in service to something or someone that's bigger than myself? That's all it is. How do I do that?
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
And you have this bold, bold, you have the boldness of personality. You, you know, have a radiance about you. You have an energy force that we can feel just sitting here talking to you. And you should be using that as you have used it in the past. And, you know, go forward and do the work. That's that's what you got to do.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Thank you, Lori. So what did you learn about your own regrets while writing and researching for The Power of Regret?
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
That you were like the 26,000 other people. That we are... Are all the same in that.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Well, yeah, I realize that about myself, too. And what I have found is, you know, my deepest, deepest regret is that I didn't take the time when I ended the Oprah show before I started the next thing. That is my deepest, deepest regret. That's interesting. And the reason why it carries and holds such power for me is because I thought about it and thought about it and I thought about it and I...
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
didn't listen to my own inner voice, my own instinct about it. And I listened to everybody else. And every time I've ever made a mistake that I regretted, either large or small, and this was the biggest one. Anytime I've done that is when I diverted from listening to the still small voice that lives inside of all of us.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
And I did the thing that everybody said, well, you have to launch now and you have to do it now and you have to. And I have regretted it. For 14 years, I've regretted it.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
And I believe in that. And I follow that. And the one time I didn't. I deeply regret it.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Yeah, and I am compassionate enough with myself to know it was a mistake, and I understand what the real mistake was. The real mistake was you...
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Well, in all of your work, seven books, what do you know for sure that matters the most to you and to other people?
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Yeah. It's why I'm doing this podcast at this stage in my life is because I know how important meaning is. And I think we're at a time where some people are lost and still trying to figure that out. And you're trying to get meaning from social media. And, you know, I see that. Right.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
And in the end, what really matters, and I've heard this over and over and read it, and I remember a wonderful Toni Morrison novel, The Song of Solomon, where in that book – One of the characters, the granddaughter dies, and the proclamation that the grandmother makes at her funeral is, and she was loved. And I remember the first time I read that, I thought, that's really all that matters.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
All the awards, all the attention, all the things that people are striving to get and have, do and be. In the end, what you want is to know that you were loved.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
I love the last paragraph of The Power of Regret. You say, after a few years immersed in the science and experience of our most misunderstood emotion, I have discovered about myself what I've discovered about others. Regret makes me human. Regret makes me better. Regret gives me hope. Thank you for The Power of Regret. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming to the Tea House. All right.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Okay. So I love when a conversation inspires us to live more intentionally. And those of you who've listened, I know that many of you are going to be inspired by what you've heard from Daniel and our other guests today. Thank you all for sharing your stories. The Power of Regret is available now anywhere books are sold. And The Life You Want, Becoming Unstuck Journal is available on Amazon.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Thanks, everyone, for listening and watching us on YouTube. I hope you'll subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. And we'll see you next week. Go well, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Okay, and the subtitle of the book is How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward. How does that, if you're stuck in the regret?
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
And in our journal, we ask people to define their regrets. Why do you think it's important for people to define their regrets?
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Got it. Okay. So those of you who are watching or listening to us right now, I know this is going to trigger you to think about what are the things that you deeply regret? Because I walk around thinking, oh, I don't have a lot of regrets. And then reading this book, I went, yeah, actually, I do. Why does regret hold such power?
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
So you studied and collected regrets from over 26,000 people from 130 countries. The data showed that there are basically four types. Can you talk about that?
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Wow. Years and years ago. And what that could have meant. Exactly. Exactly. Or maybe it wouldn't have meant anything, but you didn't do it. Exactly. You didn't take the shot.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
And you were saying, you say this in the book too, that the regrets show us what really matters to us.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Yeah. Okay. What do you think? You just saying that just triggered me to think about what do you think is the true definition of a meaningful and good life? And has that evolved as you've grown?
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Hi there. I am so glad you joined me on my podcast. I'm having a fascinating conversation with Daniel Pink, who writes about the power of regret. I wonder if you're like me, just hearing the word brings up thoughts of the things in life you regret the most. Well, we spoke to some people who are experiencing regret. I lost my virginity too soon.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Right. But a lot of them matter hugely. Yeah. The only people who don't regret it are people who are narcissists and don't have a conscious about it.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
That's right. And because they've never brought it to the forefront of their thinking and never discussed it with anybody. One of the things that was interesting to me, you said in the book, Power of Regret, and speaks to the power of it, is you regret not going to funerals. Oh, yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Okay, so why does that hold such power? Because Bob wouldn't have known you were at his funeral.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
Okay. Show up and go to the funeral. And that is how looking backward moves you forward because when you're able to take whatever it is that is the regret and turn it into something meaningful for you. Yeah. Well, we spoke to some people who are experiencing regret right now, and Tanya is one of them, and she joins us from the Bronx. Tanya, hi. Tell us what's going on.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
I think this is so interesting, Tanya, because you have been with your spouse for how long now? I have been with my spouse this February, 18 years. 18 years. And is it something your spouse has brought up to you? Like, I wish you'd been a virgin when we married? No. Never. I thought it was interesting, too, and I'm sure, you know...
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
You grew up in, you know, I'm 20 years older than you, practically. But I also grew up in an era where if you liked boys, there was no discussion other than you can't date until a certain age. And if you showed any interest in boys whatsoever, you were considered boy crazy. And I noticed that you used that term to describe yourself. And I was thinking, that's not a term you came up with.
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
That's a label somebody gave to you. And... That's what you're carrying. That's part of what you're carrying. Daniel, what do you want to say to Tanya?
The Oprah Podcast
Daniel Pink
But what I learned, which I think you will really appreciate, is that there is power in regret. It clarifies what we value. It all depends on if regret is holding you back or if you can shift your mindset to use your regrets to propel you forward. So what comes up for you? What is your biggest regret? I have my own that I'll share on this podcast. That is my deepest, deepest regret.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Okay, und das ist, wo »It Begins With You« herkommt. Ja. Okay, und ich liebe diese Idee, die Sie auf Seite 138 erwähnt haben. Lassen Sie mich es mit Ihnen alle wieder erzählen. Innerhalb von uns ist ein Kind, das designt wünscht, von einem Partner geliebt zu werden, so wie ein Vater uns idealerweise lieben würde, und das unabhängig. Und bevor wir angefangen haben,
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Our conversation that you all are seeing, when we were getting miked up here, I asked Jillian if she was familiar with another world-known therapist named Harville Hendricks, wrote a book called Getting the Love You Want. And that book...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
The nine hard truths about love that will change your life. So, welcome to the Tea House.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
redefined for me what having a relationship or being in a relationship was because in 1988 on the Oprah show he said every relationship that you're seeking you're seeking to heal the relationship that you had with your parents the dominant parent or guardian in your life and that the people that show up in your life in your personal relationships are there and
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
As triggers, as resources, as reminders for what you got and also for what you didn't get.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
So, I mean, that is what... Und das hat meine Beziehung wirklich gerettet. Es hat die Art und Weise geändert, wie ich in meiner Beziehung mit Stedman gearbeitet habe und in all meinen Beziehungen, wenn ich erinnere, dass Leute daraus kommen. Alle versuchen einfach nur zu heilen und einen Unabhängigen Weg zu finden, um geliebt zu werden.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Und dein Partner repräsentiert immer einen Teil dessen, was nicht geheilt wurde. Ja. Dein Mann repräsentierte also wen für dich?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
That's right.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Yeah, and I think that that is also a really good advice for people who are in relationships that are challenged, is to ask yourself, where have I had this feeling before? Because it isn't about what they look like, it isn't about, you know, any of that. Because in the beginning I thought, oh, Stedman's here representing my father, you know, my father is an honorable man. All diese Dinge.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Julian Turecki is a rising star in relationship advice.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Und später erkannte ich, dass es nicht nur um meinen Vater geht. Es geht auch um das Heilen der Schmerzen mit meiner Mutter. Weil jedes Mal, wenn es einen Konflikt gibt, denke ich, wo habe ich das vorher erlebt? Wo habe ich das vorher erlebt? So we know millions of women are seeking your advice and we have Marianne joining us on Zoom.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Marianne, I hear you're a divorced mom, three children from Massachusetts who says you're terrified to get married again. So let's talk about it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Her smart, no-nonsense guidance is resonating with a growing loyal audience.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Her Book It Begins With You was an instant New York Times Bestseller. Her hit Podcast Jillian on Love is being called one of the best relationship podcasts. And she is the daughter of renowned psychiatrist Dr. Stanley Turecki, whose 1985 book The Difficult Child was once considered the definitive work on dealing with what were then called hard to raise children.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
And become quiet. You pull back and you shut down.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
What's wrong? What's wrong? What's wrong? And you're saying nothing, nothing, nothing. Yeah, that's exactly what I do. Well, you know what? I would say... Ask and it shall be given, the Bible says. And I would say that the fact that you're at the realization now, where you have actually said out loud to us and all the people who are listening and watching, that you don't want this anymore.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
You see this about yourself. I know. You have chosen this path all these years and now you are saying, I want to choose differently. And just the desire to do that and the openness and awareness of, again, how Jillian says, recognizing how you begin to sabotage yourself.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
And being vulnerable enough, open enough with somebody to say, look, in the past I've had this problem and this has been an issue for me and I'm trying to relearn in this new phase of my life. And you don't start the relationship with, oh, I'm not gonna get married, if that's what you think. You just allow yourself...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
And you write on page 214, I was a highly sensitive child who felt his darkness so intensely, it disturbed me. Yes. Did you and your father ever find peace? So many people have been telling me to have Jillian on my podcast.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
at 46 soon to be 47 to open up to the rising of your life this is an opportunity to begin anew so all the old ways of being and all the stuff that you now have learned about yourself the rising is waiting for you to meet the rising come on up to the rising Ich bin bereit.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Ich habe Probleme, es zu beschreiben, aber ich fühle mich, als wäre es mein Jahr. It's not about perfection. It's not about some idea or story you told yourself in your head of what it's supposed to look like. It's supposed to look like exactly what it looks like. And you meet it where it is. I am. I am. I'm ready. Okay. And then enough to meet the next moment. And then to meet the next moment.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
It is not about some big grand scheme. It's about being present in every moment, experience and decision. And you have already done that. You've proven that with raising three great boys. And as you continue to do that, so now you're ready to create this time for yourself. That's what I hear Jillian saying.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Go for it. Go for it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It begins with you. Thank you. Next up is John from Colorado, who we saw on the Zoom was nodding along with what Marianne was telling us. John, hey, what's your question?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
I just learned to cross country this year for Christmas. Oh, that's great. Yeah. It was so great.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
It is a workout.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
If you're ready to find out how all your relationships begin with you, this is your episode.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
I see that you are in a moment. Do you feel that moment for yourself? I do absolutely feel like I'm in a moment. I call it a moment of rising because someone mentioned you to me. Have I seen your new book? And then someone else mentioned your name. And then my niece Krishanda sent me a video. And so I'm thinking, and this is all within a period of two or three days, so I'm thinking...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Yeah. You could very easily have a wife that would be so happy to see you when you returned home and not interested in making the trek with you. That's very, very, very doable.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Thanks, John. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time. I thank you for joining the Oprah Podcast. When we come back, Jillian's advice for anybody feeling stuck when it comes to taking that next step towards finding love. Welcome back and thanks for sharing your valuable time with me.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Relationship expert Jillian Turecki is here and she's answering more questions that may be similar to what's on your mind. Tamara is joining us from New Jersey. We heard from a lot of women like you, Tamara. A single mom, who's dedicated herself to raising a daughter, who's now a junior in college, and now you're left with yourself. Ja, was ist los?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Okay, that's the magic of three. Let's call Jillian. And then I find out that we have this long time connection that I didn't even know about. So how are you navigating the rise?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Go for it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
I'm ready. Thank you. Thanks, Tamara. Next we have Megan and Mike from Long Island. Megan and Mike are former clients of Jillian's who worked with her for three years. Megan, you say Jillian saved your marriage. How did she do that? Y'all are in different rooms or different cities? Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Obviously not.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
I think that's the key for all things, really. So I want to start at the beginning of the book. I mean, whoa, did you have a wham, damn, doozle of the beginning of a book? You say that on June 2nd, 2014, my life fell apart. My mother had recently been diagnosed with terminal cancer, you say. Yes. And given three months to live. And you say, that morning I suffered my third miscarriage.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Yeah, I think so, too. I saw your face light up. You're like, whoa, really? Okay. All right. Well, glad we fixed that. Thanks. Thank you guys. Appreciate you zooming in with us. Thank you so much. Thank you. Time now for a quick break. When we come back, Jillian's insight on the role heartbreak plays in healing our relationship with ourselves.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. We're going to wrap things up with a new perspective on heartbreak. If you like what you heard today, I hope you'll share this podcast with someone you care about or who may be ready to hear it. The subtitle of your book is Nine Hard Truths About Love That Will Change Your Life. What would you say is the number one hard truth?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Yeah. Das ist Nummer eins. Und es ist immer da, sich zurück zu dir zu reflektieren, was du eigentlich ... Immer. ... nötig bist, um dich zu heilen und dich für dich selbst zu fixieren. Ja.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Ich liebe es, wenn du sagst, auf Seite neun, jeder einzelne Schmerz und Enttäuschung, die wir jemals durchgeführt haben, war, uns mehr über unsere Gefühle, Pattern und Glauben zu lernen, die unsere Chancen für eine erfüllende Beziehung sabotiert haben. Also ist Schmerz da, um dir einen anderen Weg zu zeigen.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
That's right, that's right.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
And if you're in a relationship and there's no longer connection, you actually are not in relationship because connection is the single best thing that makes us feel whole.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Und es beginnt mit dir. Und es beginnt mit dir. Du kreierst diese Brücke. Jillian's Buch, It Begins With You, ist überall, wo Bücher sind. Und unser Podcast heißt Jillian on Love. Ich danke dir wieder, dass du mein Gast bist. And thank you, Marianne and John and Tamara, Megan and Mike. Go well, everyone.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
And my husband left me. He broke up with me over the phone.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
You can subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
You were having a miscarriage.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Hi there. So glad to be with you here on the Oprah Podcast. This is where we are having conversations around ideas that I certainly hope are going to make your life better, more enhanced. And maybe you'll see yourself in my guests or hear something that sparks a new way of thinking about something that you're struggling with. You'll have an aha to remind you of what
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Wow. And you felt what?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Your mom's been given three months to live with terminal cancer. You've had your third miscarriage and your husband says, I'm not coming home. Yes. And it's just not working out for me. Had you sensed that it wasn't working?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
That the marriage is going to heal that thing.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
It puts a big magnifying glass on it. Correct. That's what it does.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Und so hast du dich auf den Boden geholt, du warst enttäuscht.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Und wie lange nach diesem Moment konntest du anfangen, wieder zu bauen?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
You know and what your true wisdom has always been. My guest today says, our relationships determine our happiness in life. Well, isn't that just the truth? And if you're like me, if my relationships are out of whack or not in a good place, then everything else is off kilter. Like when you have an argument with somebody who's close to you and you love, it throws everything else off.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Das ist nicht die Narrative, die du für dich geschrieben hast.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Oh, so let's talk about your father for a moment. Famed psychiatrist, Dr. Stanley Turecki. I remember him. In 1985, he wrote a best-selling book called The Difficult Child. And I remember having him on The Oprah Show. A couple of times. And people really loving his advice because the advice was all about how to handle the difficult child.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
And part of that theory was, it's not your fault if you have a difficult child. Children are just born that way. And these are the things you need to do. Now, isn't part of the problem that parents want their children to conform to whatever their needs are at the moment?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
That is just their nature.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Okay, so here's our connection. It turns out you were the difficult child he was talking about in the title. How did that label impact you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
But you did say you were funny and you had other personality traits that were...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Und du schreibst auf Seite 214, ich war ein sehr sensibeles Kind, das seine Dunkelheit so intensiv fühlte, dass es mich zerstörte. Und du sprichst über deinen eigenen Vater. Was war die Dynamik zwischen dir und deinem Vater?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
And there is no happiness without first taking care of our relationships. And so I'm so happy that Jillian Tarecki, who is a certified relationship coach, a teacher and host of the hit podcast, Jillian on Love, almost 3 million of you are following her advice on Instagram. Well, Jillian, wrote a book, her very first book called It Begins With You.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Also wusste du nicht, dass es Bipolarschäden gab? Nein, und auch nicht, dass er es hatte. Ja, und du hast also nur all diese Mood-Schwingungen, die du nicht beurteilen kannst. Die du nicht beurteilen kannst. Ja. Und? Was hat das für eine Beziehung für die beiden von euch gemacht?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Ja, und wenn du ein Kind bist, wirst du das auf dich selbst beurteilen. Als Kind hast du nicht die Sprache, um zu erklären, oh, das ist eine bipolare Sache, die passiert und er ist nie präsent. Er ist nicht mit jemandem präsent. Du denkst, der Grund, warum er sich so weit entfernt, entfernt und geschlossen fühlt, ist wegen mir.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
And you write on page 138, Inside all of us is a child who desperately yearns to be loved by a partner the way a parent would ideally love us, and that is unconditionally. And that's what every relationship is actually seeking. Did you and your father ever find peace?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Well, I appreciate you so much spending your very valuable time with us today. I know your life is busy, so taking this time to learn something new or pausing to listen to a conversation means a lot to me. Coming up, Jillian's advice for a divorced mom who says she's terrified of ever getting married again. Plus, a professional mountain climber looking to conquer his fear of intimacy.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships
Julian, die Frage ist, wie hat deine Erfahrung oder deine Lebenserfahrung, deine Beziehung zu deinem Vater, deine Beziehung zu deinem Mann, die dich verlassen hat, dich zu diesem Moment der Wissens, der besonders mit Frauen resoniert?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
That's right. They're only eating when they're hungry and they're stopping when they're full. That's right.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
There was a guy named Bob Schwartz who had a diet called Diets Don't Work. And the whole principle was to eat when you're hungry, stop when you're full. Did multiple seminars three times with him on that. And the principle is great, except if you have obesity, it doesn't work.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
We are diving into the latest research on these medications that roughly 15 million Americans are now using. Can you set the record straight on side effects? Dr. Anya is here to answer a lot of your common questions.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
We do the same thing for diabetes. My mother was a diabetic. She was an insulin shooting diabetic for most of her life. And she would be told to stay off of sweets. Now and then, because people in the South, just a lot of people in the South, not generalizing, but a lot of people that come from my family in the South think that having a little bit of coconut cake is okay.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
That's what people say. And they call it a touch of sugar and never realized how really definitively. Yes. bad it is for you to have a little bit of sugar when you have diabetes until you end up going blind or end up having to have your leg amputated and all the things that happen.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
So if you have high blood pressure, which a lot of people do. you are recommended not to have salt, and here's a blood pressure medication.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Yeah, and everybody's out there taking their blood pressure medications, and not once do they think, boy, this is the easy way out.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
It's my hope that this conversation with Dr. Anya will help you become more informed about the research and medications that are literally flipping the script on everything we thought we knew about being overweight. Stay with us. We'll be back in a moment. Hey again to you. I'm with Dr. Anya talking about the GLP-1 medications that are revolutionizing weight loss.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Why do you believe it's so important to tell your patients that obesity is a disease? It's critical.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
You may remember Amy, who I met on the ABC special. She had lost 160 pounds after starting a prescription of Monjaro. She's zooming in with an update.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Because why would you choose it? And why wouldn't you change it if you could?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
That's right. Because you're no longer blaming yourself. That's right.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Okay. Can you explain why these GLP medications have been a game changer for so many people?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
So people are thinking it's targeting your stomach, because I know some people take their shots in the stomach. It's not targeting your stomach.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
A quick note, my guests on this podcast asked us to show their before and after weight loss pictures because they believe the photos are a vital part of their life's journey. It's wonderful to talk to you again. You know, that new study says that nearly 75% of American adults are overweight or obese. So what determines obesity versus overweight, just being overweight?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
So as you increase the dose... So let's say you start out, you're 200 pounds, and then you start taking the medications. Yep. and you start to lose weight. And when you say it's chasing another set point, it means what specifically? Give me an example of what that number might be.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Okay, so many of you might remember Amy from the ABC special I did back in the spring, feels like years ago now. Shame, Blame, and the Weight Loss Revolution. What happened after you went on Majaro?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
And Amy is zooming in from Naperville, Illinois. Amy, hello. Hello. Good to see you again. It's so good to see you. I remember you telling us your highest weight. was around 300 pounds. And you found out that you had diabetes and your A1C numbers were dangerously off the charts. And then you went on Manjaro in March of 2023, as I recall, right? And you lost 160 pounds in one year.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
And I hear you're getting messages, hundreds of messages every week from people online. What is the number one question that people are asking you or comments that are coming to you?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Well, I just want to applaud you because you took what was one of your greatest pains and shames and have now turned it into a powerful movement for yourself and to help other people. What are the biggest misconceptions that people are sharing with you about the GLP-1 weight loss drugs? What are they saying?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
People don't even know that there's a drug that's been created specifically for weight loss. Absolutely. I am told all the time. A couple of years ago, people were saying, oh, you're taking drugs away from the diabetics. That is no longer true because there is a specific drug for diabetics and a specific drugs for people who are trying to lose weight. And what else?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Well, you know what else I realized too, Amy and Dr. Anya, is that the people who are shaming oftentimes have never experienced the food noise themselves. They don't even know what you're talking about when you're saying food noise. And so that brings us to the point of I interviewed Mel Robbins recently, who has a great book out called Let Them.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
You just have to let them say what they say, do what they do and let them. yourself understand the power of what you're doing by creating community and building connection with people who've experienced some of the same things and are looking to improve their health. I'm so happy to know.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
First of all, you were telling me that back in March when we talked that you were still trying to adjust to buying the right size for yourself because you were still thinking that you needed to get larger sizes. Has that eased itself?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Yeah. In another conversation, Dr. Anya and I were talking to a woman who said she's kept herself out of every picture in her entire life with her family.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Wearing dark colors or standing behind other people or standing to the side or trying to avoid the picture. We're glad you're putting yourself in the picture now. Thank you so much.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Thanks, Amy. Good to see you again. You too. Keep up the great work you're doing. Where do we find you online? What is your...
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Stay with us. I'll be back with more of my conversation with Dr. Anya. We're talking with more people who have experienced a dramatic weight loss from these medications.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Hi, and welcome back. I'm with Yale University's Dr. Anya, and we're talking with people who have lost a dramatic amount of weight with the assistance of the new anti-obesity medications. Next, Amina is a mom of two young children zooming in from Lee Summit, Missouri. Hi, Amina. How are you?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Well, thank you. I heard that the ABC special that we did, the same one that Amy was on, inspired you to make a change in your life. So tell us what happened. You were watching the special and you saw Amy. You heard her story.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Wow. And so do you have a question for us today or do you want to share something?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
That's the goal. Yeah, the focus has been on weight reduction. Yes. But the real truth is, and we're going to hear from some people today who tell you that what has happened to them in terms of their physical health, their emotional health, the way they see themselves, the way the rest of the world sees them, including their family members, is the big bonus for this. Yes. Is why.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
I think it's such a crucial thing. And I actually, I've heard you say this before, but I just had an aha moment. And my aha is, we think because you've lost the weight, you've solved the problem. Because in the past, every time you went on a diet, once you lost the weight, you thought, now this is it. I've done it. I've succeeded. And we think... And I'm sure you're feeling this.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
I'm saying we, assuming that you feel the same way. That I've lost the weight now. The problem is solved. But the problem isn't solved because the disease hasn't gone away. That's right. Just because you lost the weight. That's right. The disease is still there. So it's just like in alcoholism. I just had this aha now.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
It's like in alcoholism, you cannot go back to drinking. Because your brain, just because you've gotten sober doesn't mean you can now have a drink. We can't go back. Otherwise, you gain the weight.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
It's absolutely life-changing. And I know the term life-changing gets thrown around a lot, but this really is. Okay, so let's talk about why is, this is the thing. I recognize this probably now, it's almost going on two years that I realized that obesity was a disease, having a discussion like this.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
That's another way to look at it. Because if you look at it as a weight loss drug, now you've lost the weight. So now I'm finished. That's right. But the disease doesn't go away.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Well, that's also the reason why I mean to ask that question. And everybody, I've had that question. Everybody has that question. Do I have to stay on it? Because now I've lost the weight. Yes. The disease is not gone. The weight isn't the issue. That's right. You think the weight is the symptom of the... It is the symptom.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Thank you for asking that and causing me to have multiple ahas here today. Thank you, Amina. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thanks, Amina.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Let's talk about all the different, you know, it seems like every couple weeks or so, there is another disclosure about what these obesity medications have revealed in terms of helping people drink less alcohol and not obviously lowering blood sugar, but what are all the other health benefits that we are discovering?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
What is it about it that makes you not want to drink as much alcohol? I mean, I used to be the tequila queen, and now it's like, take it or leave it.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Emma is a dental hygienist and a mother of two, zooming in from Winder. Is it Winder? Winder, Georgia.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Can you share with our audience, with every person who's listening, who has doubts, who's heard, I saw on TikTok and yeah. Why is obesity a disease?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
And so when you got, I'm sure you got pushback or people saying negative things on social media. How have you managed that for yourself?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
We're just now hearing about it, but some people have been using them.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
I know the question that Amina asked before about whether you have to be on the medication forever. Did you hear the answer when I had my big aha moment there, Emma?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
That it's like... And I've always thought that you solve the problem once you lose the weight, but then when you regain the weight again, it's like the problem came back. But when you have the hormone that allows for the obesity to be prevalent in your life, then... It's never going to go away. It's never going to go away.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
And so when we've lost the weight or in the process of losing the weight, that's when you're controlling it. Yes, that's exactly right. But it doesn't mean the problem is solved. That's right.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
And the important thing is... Which is another way to look at it. Yes. Isn't that an aha moment?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
And I'm wondering whether or not once you reach the set point, once Emma gets to her goal weight, are you at goal weight yet?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Will you reach a point where when you've reached the goal weight that you may be able to lower the dosage to maintain?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Yes. Not your fault. Yeah. It helps getting your life back feel like redemption, doesn't it?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Oh, girl, please. You have got so much life left in you. So that's so wonderful that you've discovered it now at the right time for you. Thank you so much, Emma. Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
I love the beautiful photograph of you and your daughters. That's gorgeous.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Thank you. I thank you for listening. We'll be back with weight loss expert and research scientist, Dr. Anya, after this. I thank you so much for listening and being with us here. We're back with Dr. Anya. Dr. Anya, so can you set the record straight on side effects? Because I've heard everything from vomiting to throwing up to diarrhea to
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
And I also have heard hair loss. Is hair loss from these medications a real thing?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
If you go to someone and they immediately put you on a high dose, you're going to the wrong health care provider because that should not happen.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Okay, so— For most people, this is a medication to treat obesity and to understand that once you lose the weight, it doesn't mean that the problem is solved. That's correct. That's the big aha for me today.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Thank you. Dr. Anya, it's always a joy to talk to you. Thank you so much for being here. We value your expertise on this topic. It must feel rewarding for you that this moment has finally come and that these medications are being made available to so many people because you get to see it in your own patients.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Well, I can see how rewarding it is because you have people saying, I got my life back.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Well, I want to thank you, Amy. Thank you, Amina. Thank you, Emma. Thank you for all of our guests sharing your stories. Go well, everybody. Thank you for making time to be with me today. I really hope that you join me for part two of this conversation as we continue to see how these new medications result in dramatic loss of weight, almost the equivalent of an entire person.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
You've lost 165 pounds. Wow. Congratulations. So what happens in the aftermath of that? The doctor said to me, when are you going to stop blaming yourself and let somebody help you? When you lose up to 100 pounds or more, do people treat you differently? Everyone was so much friendlier to me. How does that impact how you see yourself in the world and even within your own family?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
To be honest, I feel like she kind of takes it for granted a little bit. Like she forgets where she's come from. That's my next conversation with Dr. Anya and new guests who have a lot to say about their experiences. So we'll talk to you then. And thank you so much for being here. You can subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
But that's in somebody's and not in others. That's true. Okay. And so is that because in my body, because I obviously have... an issue with obesity. In my body and people who are prone to be overweight, as I have been, is that because my hormones are different than the other person's?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Listen, I've done every diet, as we're going to talk to people today who have also done every diet. And even when I'm not, quote, dieting, I... considered myself eating healthy meals. And, you know, I'm not a person who, you know, goes to fast food restaurants or, you know, I do eat a lot of potato chips, but I'm not a person.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Your brain craves those potato chips. It craves a chip or something that's crunchy or salty. That's right. And it's my go-to if there is any discomfort in my life whatsoever, a bad phone call. Yes. I have to do all of my bills. It helps with your stress. Yeah, absolutely. I don't know why a pretzel calms me down, but it does. But it does.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
I know other people for whom potato chips don't turn them on. Right, exactly.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Whether you are listening on the Oprah podcast or watching on YouTube, I appreciate you being with us. Last year, millions tuned into my special on ABC, Shame, Blame, and the Weight Loss Revolution. It's now streaming on Hulu if you want to check it out. We're continuing the conversation around weight loss medications like Ozempic and Manjaro. People still don't understand it.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
I see a bag of Ruffles or I see a Ruffles commercial. Then that's it. Listen, I've gotten up and left my house to go get a bag of Ruffles.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
But that wouldn't affect me. A brownie wouldn't even bother me. Wouldn't affect you, right. But the potato chips, then that's what... I would not—if there were potato chips here, it would be a battle for me to not— It would be a battle to not have one. Yeah. And I know that if I had one, because I have an addict's brain, I would not be able to— You would eat all the potato chips.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Yeah, when Lay's did that, nobody can eat just one, I think they knew what they were doing.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
You know, one of the big breakthrough for me a couple of years ago when I was doing having this discussion, the state of weight on O'Dailey, the big breakthrough for me was understanding, oh, the aha for me was like, oh, this is like the years in the early 80s, mid to late 80s. This was like the years of the mid to late 80s. We started the Oprah show in 1986.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
And I remember doing a show on alcoholism in 1987 on a whole family of alcoholics and generations passing it on. And people were outraged that you would call alcoholism a disease in 1987. Like, how dare you? They just need to put the bottle down and they're really just drunks and so forth.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
And over time, through education, through information, through people looking at other people in their family, through corporations understanding what it was, people came to understand that it actually is an addiction born of disease. Yes. And I think that's where we are now with obesity. People still don't understand it. They want to blame other people for it.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
They want to say, just put your fork down and quit eating those brownies or those potato chips. And what's wrong with you? And one of the reasons why I was reluctant to use them in the beginning when I was trying to lose weight after my knee surgery, because I also felt... It's cheating. It's the easy way out. I've got to prove this one last time I could do it by myself.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
And I don't want people saying I took the easy way out. And I think that that's one of the major issues that people who are now open to using the drugs are experiencing from their experience. Their friends or colleagues or families and also within themselves. Is it the easy way out?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Because now that I look back on it, I've said this on other occasions, that I was publicly humiliated for 25 years, every week, exploited by the tabloids. Every time any comedian wanted to make fun or make a joke about it, they could make a joke about it. And I accepted it because I thought I deserved it. I accepted it. I was shamed by it. And I received it because I thought, well, they're right.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Is it the easy way out? It's absolutely the opposite. I'm joined on this podcast by Dr. Anya Yastribov, an endocrinologist and associate professor at the Yale School of Medicine. She has been studying GLP-1 medications for more than 20 years.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
And they were wrong. And they were wrong. Now I know they were so wrong. Now I know why they were wrong.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Yeah, of course, you blame yourself. It's so hard. And any person who's watching or listening to us right now who has suffered from obesity or being overweight, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
You do not have to be on television every day to experience the same level of shame and embarrassment and why can't I do this and I'm so good at so many other things and I can take charge of my life and I can do all of this and why can't I? Right. outside world telling you that you are less than, that you should be shamed, feels like the punishment you deserve.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
It's like the alcoholic finally realizing that it's not my willpower that caused me to not to be able to pick up the next drink.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
And I know the people who don't have obesity as a disease don't even know what we're talking about.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Ania Jastreboff
Because one of the things that I realized the very first time I took a GLP-1 was that all these years I thought that thin people, those people, were just, had more willpower, they ate better foods, they were able to stick to it longer, they never had a potato chip. And then I realized the very first time I took the GLP-1 that, oh, they're not even thinking about it.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
I can see why that would live with you forever.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
Intimate, personal, vulnerable, that he probably hadn't shared with anyone. With anyone, yeah. So I've heard you say writing is about listening. rather than making. I think that is so fascinating. What is it you're listening for? You say writing is about listening rather than making.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
And that's what this whole story is all about. It means you've watched and observed and... I feel that parts of you are high, but then you're not high. So you are high and not high, right? He's a lot better than me.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
Okay, so I will tell you that I read chapter one sometimes just to soothe myself, particularly in these times. And over Christmas holidays, I was with my chosen family. I've raised these girls since they were 12 years old. And now they're in their 30s. And there were four of us at my house. And we were sitting around a crackling fire. Reading out loud. Chapter one.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
Where does this come from, this wellspring of creativity?
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
I mean, when I think of that, I think about the people as teenagers drinking in their father's trucks. And I think, wow, all of that's true. And then time passes and then they're sitting there in the same trucks or different trucks. And there they are with the babies in their arms and they don't even know how they got there. How were you able to able to get that?
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
And then life goes on. Yeah. And you think life goes on just as it was before. Right. Yes. Well, High is a 19-year-old who meets Grazina, an elderly woman who brings hope into High's life against all odds. And she and High form an unlikely friendship. What was your intention in bringing these two characters together?
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
So I just want to say you and your family immigrated from Vietnam to the United States when you were just two years old. And I know your mother worked in a nail salon for 25 years to support the family. And she watched the Oprah show every day at four o'clock. That TV would be on. That's what you told me when I called you.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
Was there a Grazina in your life? Because you dedicate the book to Grazina. And you say, in memory of Grazina.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
Well, that's why I loved on page 253 where Grazina is talking and she says... To be alive and try to be a decent person and not turn it into anything big or grand, that's the hardest thing of all. You think being president is hard? Ha. Didn't you notice that every president becomes a millionaire after he leaves office?
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
If you can be nobody and stand on your own two feet for as long as I have, that's enough. People don't know what's enough, LaBosse. That's their problem. They think they suffer, but they're actually just bored. They don't eat enough carrots. I love that. But I love that because she's so, that is so right.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
I mean, to be able to stand on your own and to continue to be kind in a world that's often very unkind to you, that's the real hard work. Yeah. Thank you for choosing the Oprah podcast and for listening to my conversation with celebrated writer Ocean Vaughn. His extraordinary novel, The Emperor of Gladness, is my 114th Oprah's Book Club pick. And let me just say, I just think it's a must read.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
It's one of those books that should be in your library. And I'm with an audience full of people who have read the book and have thoughtful questions for Ocean. Stay with us.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
Welcome back to Oprah's Book Club. I'm sitting down with award-winning author Ocean Vuong, author of my 114th book club selection, The Emperor of Gladness. It's a sweeping tale, so poetically and vividly written. On every page, it feels like you're in the story. You're in it with the characters. I know our audience felt the same way. So let's hear what questions our readers have for Ocean.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
I love to hear what parts of the book they connected to. So let's get back to it. Our audience has read this book, and I know you're all excited to be able to ask questions. Prashita is here. Hi.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
That's how the book begins. The hardest thing in the world is to live only once.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
Thank you, Prashita. When you started the book, did you start it with high story? Because I've talked to authors, they start in the middle. Wally Lamb told me he started, you know, this much is true. He started it in the middle because he had the idea for the twins. Where did it start for you? It started with landscape.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
Yeah, on page three, where you're just scribing the natural area and you say, look how the birches blackened all night by starlings shatter when dawn's first sparks touch their beaks. I went, holy Jesus, who is this guy? When dawn's first shadow touches their beaks, it felt like we were right there watching them.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
Wow. Crystal is here. I hear the small town setting of this story. Really, you connected with this?
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
I was surprised to hear that because I used to go to Hartford. My friend Gail started her career there in Hartford.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
WFSB in Hartford, yes. And so I was thinking, I didn't know there were cornfields near Hartford at all.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
That's what the genius grant is all about. Thinking a little too much and getting a few white hairs. I got it. I got it. All right. Other questions from the audience? Rebecca, I hear you have a question for me.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
Every part of it resonated with me. I was... I loved Sunny. I loved Sunny's relationship with High. I loved Grazina's relationship with High. I loved everybody in the home market. I wanted to go there and have some of that damn cornbread. I could taste that cornbread. I know it's got a lot of sugar in it, but I wanted to have some cornbread.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
And I just thought, I wish I could go to the home market and hang out and sit there and hang with everybody. I really did. I mean, obviously, the mother figure in me was like, call your mother. Go to your mother. Are you going to go? And my girls, when they were reading it, they were like... Is he never going to... He's going to definitely run into his mother, right?
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
He's going to run into his mother. And I kept thinking he's going to run into his mother. And I'm not telling you whether he did or not. But I really wanted that relationship to also be resolved in some way. But I couldn't pick a character. I mean, I think it would be a hoot to sit with Grazina and have one of those coffee blends here from Starbucks. I think that would be great. But all of them.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
Do you have a favorite?
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
And when they all went out looking for that. That diamond thing. Y'all knew you weren't going to find a diamond, right? No. Okay. No. Which is purposeful. They all did it for him. They all did it for him. They knew they weren't going to find it.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
This is what's so beautiful about the book. It's just ordinary people living their lives. The thing that got me, though, was the pig scene. I don't know if I mean, wasn't where did that come from? Did you have a pig experience in your own life? I did.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
Okay, Ryan. Ryan? Okay, hi.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
Everybody, hello. Let me introduce you to this genius man, Ocean Vuong. Say hello. Everybody here has read the book. Oh, thank you. OK, ready, class? I love this book so much. Hi, everybody. A warm welcome to you. Thanks for joining us for Oprah's Book Club, presented by Starbucks. It's so good to be here in my old, sweet home Chicago at a cozy Starbucks cafe.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
Wow. Many of the characters struggle with depression. There's a reason for that, right? Yeah. What is that reason?
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
Conversation. Conversation. Creating community. Your mother died of cancer in 2019. And I read that you said that ever since you lost her, you felt like your life has been lived in only two days. Can you explain that?
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
I'm so glad you said it. I'm so glad you did. I think that this book is an offering to the world. I just hope that people are as moved to understand
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
the voices of the voiceless as we all have been who had the benefit of being able to receive your gift early this year the emperor of gladness thank you for this magnificent novel there's so much more we could talk about a big thank you to our wonderful starbucks partners for supporting us i hope you buy the book and then i think it's such a fun idea to head to your local starbucks cafe with a friend
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
And the best thing in the world, I can tell you, is if you're reading it and a friend is reading it too, because then you can talk about all the characters. So thank you so much. Thank you, Oprah. It's a pleasure. And thank you all for listening and watching. And we hope you'll join our community and become a part of all of our conversations.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
Subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. Go well, everybody. The Emperor of Gladness.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
Oh, my God. Now I'm going to cry. Well, I think your mother is with us in spirit today. She would be so proud that it is now your book that I'm holding up and telling the world about her son And when you were, you know, working in the nail salon, you're working at the Boston Market, how did you get to be Ocean Vuong, the celebrated writer? Well, my mother knew I was a nerd.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
I think it's a great place to meet a friend and connect over a good book and a delicious cup of curated coffee. The pairing for this book club pick is an ice brown sugar oat milk shaken espresso. They say it's the ultimate pick-me-up. So my 114th book club selection, we're here to talk about it today.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
When I called you, I told you that when I told you I was choosing this as a book club, I said, I still think about High. I still think about Sony. I still think about these characters. Readers, didn't you love these characters? And don't they stay with you? And so I am just wondering how this story came to be. I'm always fascinated by the process by which authors come to tell their story.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
It feels like The Emperor was always inside you somewhere. How did it come to be?
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
And I just have to say, I have to stop myself from tearing up when I think about this book because it is epic. It is poignant. It is hauntingly beautiful. And I read it back in October, and I still sometimes wake up thinking about the characters. The book is called The Emperor of Gladness by celebrated author Ocean Vuong. Welcome, Ocean Vuong!
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
I think that's so powerful, don't you all? You have your chosen family, you have your family that you're born into. Many people have a chosen family that they found. But all of us who work
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
And certainly, I remember during certainly all the years that I spent here in Chicago, 25 years just down the street, that we were our own circumstantial family and were integrated in each other's lives in a way that you weren't integrated in the lives of all the people who were your biological family. And I have to say, you've created... the most memorable, misfit, motley crew of characters.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
And I love that each one of them had their own level of kindness in their own unique way. And I think that that kind of group happens all over the world. People create camaraderie with each other. How did you come to realize each one of them and you were able to express each of their kindnesses
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
That's why I love this book so much and why the characters, I think, have stayed with me. Because you, as the author, are the voice for the people whose stories never get told. Just ordinary folks working every day, doing the best they can to keep their heads above water, and going on with their lives and trying to have a little bit of laughter, a little bit of fun, a little bit of relief.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
And you do that so well because you have been that person. You just started out by sharing with us that you worked at Boston Market. Is that where the idea for the home market came from?
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
It's easy to give when it doesn't cost you anything to give.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
I cherish the time I get to sit down with the talented authors from my book club, and I am equally grateful for the time you all are spending with me here, that you in particular have come to listen, dear listener. Coming up, I share a few of my favorite passages from Ocean Vuong's sweeping novel, The Emperor of Gladness. He is the most exquisite writer. Stay with us.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
I welcome you back, dear listener, to Oprah's Book Club. And I'm at a Starbucks in Chicago right now with an audience full of devoted readers. We are diving into what critics are calling epic, astonishing, and a masterwork. Ocean Bong's The Emperor of Gladness, my 114th Oprah's Book Club selection. Let's get back to the conversation. There was a wild moment.
The Oprah Podcast
Ocean Vuong: "The Emperor Of Gladness" | Oprah's Book Club
I want to talk to you about being this accomplished author with so many awards, hard to mention them all. At just 36, you have a wild list of accomplishments. New York Times bestselling author. A professor of modern poetry at NYU, a multiple award-winning poet, essayist, novelist, screenwriter. You also won a MacArthur Genius Grant. And English isn't even your first language.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
I want you to know this conversation is not intended to offer medical advice. Psychedelics remain illegal in most states, so I encourage you to consult your own healthcare professional before considering any kind of mental health treatment.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
So you were taking psychedelic assistant therapy to help you with whatever was going on with you, and you thought, well, honey, you should try this, right? And what did you think when he first suggested it?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Well, that's how most of us learned what PTSD was. So I remember when I opened my school in South Africa and, you know, the girls were going through all this, what I thought was like, what is happening? Dr. Bruce Perry said to me, I think your girls are suffering from PTSD. And I said the same thing. Well, they haven't been to war. And he goes, poverty is war. Trauma is war.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And so that's the first time I realized it around 2006, 2007. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
I thank you for joining me for Oprah's Book Club presented by Starbucks. When we come back, Amy Griffin explains everything you may be wondering about her psychedelic assisted therapy experience, from who was with her to what pills she took and how long it lasted. She'll go into detail of how it all went down. That's next.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Welcome back to Oprah's Book Club presented by Starbucks. I'm so glad you're here with us. I'm with author and investor Amy Griffin, whose book The Tell is my 112th selection. Amy is talking about her use of psychedelic therapy and how it helped her uncover a traumatic experience from her childhood.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
A reminder, this conversation contains discussions about sexual abuse and may be challenging to hear. This is not a subject for young children. Since we'll be discussing psychedelics, I want you to also know this conversation is not intended to offer any kind of medical advice.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Well, the reason why I think the tell is going to have such a profound effect on so many people is because when people live a life like you live, a very elevated, highly exposed to everything possible in the world life, growing up the way you did in Amarillo, riding around with your banana seat bicycle and going to the Tootin' Totem,
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
and having everything look and seem to be perfect, except you didn't win Homecoming Queen. I did not. It's hard to believe that traumatic things happen to you because people think when you have money that you can't have sadness or trauma or difficulties or challenges. So what happened during your first session with the therapist? And what psychedelic did you use?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
I love some truffle, honey. Me too. And you can pick up a bag of Anniversary Blend at your local Starbucks store. Okay, so here is my 112th book club pick. It is called The Tell. The Tell. A memoir by Amy Griffin. Amy Griffin is the founder of the investment firm G9 Ventures. She is a financial visionary supporting female founders of iconic brands like Goop, Bumble, Spanx, and Hello Sunshine.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
At the time, you didn't know you had the secret. You just knew it was something.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
So what did you see in that session? We want to know what happens when you take the pill. I know. Explain it to us. Are you lying down? Are you sitting up? Is somebody talking to you? We don't know what happens. What happens?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Oh, the therapist doesn't say one word.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Okay. So you took- I took the pill. You took the pill.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And that was it. That was the moment. So then did you start talking and telling what you were seeing?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And I'm so grateful for that. It was like you were put back in the room, in the space with the teacher. So when I was reading that, it sounded terrifying because there were so much violence involved. I mean, literally him putting your head in the toilet, literally him doing all kinds of horrible things to you, including, you know, his foot on your back at one time.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
How were you able to process this? You're lying there on the sofa with their eyes covered and you're telling this story. Does it feel like you're back in the space? Does it feel like you're in danger? Or does it feel like you're the observer of this thing?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
In her new memoir, The Tell, Amy confronts her painful past and unravels a secret she buried deep inside for over three decades, ultimately finding peace and freedom by writing her story. This conversation contains discussions about child sexual abuse and may be challenging or upsetting for some people. Listener and viewer discretion is advised. This is not a subject for young children.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Yeah. So you have since talked to trauma therapists who explained to you why you would block this from your memory. And what did they tell you?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
But everything that's ever happened to us is in here, is in here. Everything that's ever happened, we don't remember all the little day-to-day things that happened. So what did she say?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Okay. One of the things that struck me in the book, and I think a lot of women go through this too, this whole idea of perfectionism, right? Having to be right about everything and doing everything right and it's perfect. There's a line that you used, I recall, where you said, I mistook praise for love. You thought getting praised was the same as being loved.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And so when you get the trophy or when you're awarded the... whatever the award is, and that's why not being homecoming queen was so devastating to you because it's a form of praise and you felt like, what did I do wrong?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Yeah. Well, listen, I'm no doctor either, but I've done hundreds of shows now on abuse and have my own, you know, story of being sexually assaulted, raped at nine, and then continued on sexual abuse up until the time that I was 14. And I remember when I first told the story, everyone was like, well, why didn't you tell? Why didn't you tell?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And I didn't tell because I knew it wasn't safe for me to tell. I knew that if I had told, I would have been blamed for it. Somehow it would have turned on me and I would have been held responsible. And in reading your book, The Tell, I thought you were able to suppress it because you were so... This is just my theory. I don't know what the therapist said.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Is that you were able to suppress it because...
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
your life was built around praise and perfection and that nothing that was happening with that teacher fit in with your idea of who you were as a person and so that just couldn't be in your world and somehow you managed to suppress that and the striking thing in the book to me is the moment when your sister there's this party they're having and there's
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
There's one of your old babysitters is on the tape. What was that party? What was that party for?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Okay. The night before the rehearsal dinner for the wedding. And your sister would put together this tape and she's so proud of the tape. And she has one of your old babysitters. And in that tape, do you all remember this moment? The old babysitter talks about Amy always hiding her underwear. Yeah. And I thought, whoa, whoa. And you had a really bad reaction to that in the tape.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And you were upset with your sister and said, you know, what you said to your sister about it. Because during that time, you're hiding your underwear because of all that was going on. So even in that moment where the babysitter says, oh, yeah, Amy always used to hide her underwear, right? Did that, the reason why it upset you was what?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
May I say, well done. The courage it took to put this in writing and to then offer it to the world. You should be very proud of yourself. And I chose this book because I am so proud of you. I'm proud of you for having the courage to speak your truth. And I know that your truth is going to liberate so many people.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Because shame wasn't a part of your story.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And you got that from your parents. And I get that from my parents. You got that from your parents, is what you said.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Yeah. Yeah. What's interesting, too, about that and about how you grew up is that you're a groomer and, you know, everybody gets groomed. I mean, you know, I was doing the actual Oprah show talking to men who molested their daughters before I realized it actually wasn't my fault.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
When one of the men was talking about how he had worked for six months to be able to get close enough to his stepdaughter to rub up against her breasts. and that he had worked on touching her thighs and touching her in playing games. And then one day he was going for the breasts, he said.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And if he got a reaction from her, then he would go to his wife first and say, I don't know why she reacted that way. And the daughter did say, what are you doing? And then he said, I left her alone and I moved on to her sister. So in that conversation, I realized, oh, there was a plan. It wasn't my fault. There was a plan. And your teacher had a plan.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And that day that you had lost the election for, was it student council or student president? And he knew that you were a strong leader. And he said, what did he say to you?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And you start the book by saying, this is a story, you say, of a secret, a secret kept for decades, one I had buried so deep I didn't even know it was there. Many of us carry secrets, things that we were told not to reveal or things we simply couldn't for fear of judgment or reprisal or, worst of all, for fear that if the people we love found out, they'd see us differently.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Well, the truth is he had his eyes on you. He already had his eyes on you. So when he said to you that you're the leader of this school, you're the real leader, that made you feel really validated. And so you go out of your way to prove that you are. So then you start staying later after school and it's just you and him and the... volleyball coach or the gym teacher, whoever it was.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And he sees that. And so as I'm reading this now, having come from the background that I do, he had his eye on you, had targeted you. And believe me, you're not the only one who was targeted. But at this particular time, you were targeted and he was going after you no matter what. And the fact that you come from the background that you come from,
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
he would have believed that you would not have told. And this is what I've learned for myself, and having interviewed, done hundreds of these shows, I think by the time we finished the Oprah show, we'd done over 200 shows on, you know, victims of abuse, is if you don't tell the first time it happens, you're likely not to tell.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Because by the time it happens a second and third time, you think you're complicit. You're somehow... you caused it or it's your fault or you're making it happen. But if you don't tell the very first time, that's been my experience, that it gets harder and harder to tell.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
But let's just say, I recall in the book you say, didn't he tell you that if you told anybody, they wouldn't believe you? Many times. Yeah. And you believed him.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Amy Griffin! Did you see you Chicagoans? Say hello to Amy. Say hello to Amy. Say hello to Amy. Thank you, Chicago. I'm excited for you to be able to share this story with the world. Oprah, when you called, you were in the closet.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Is love. Up next, Amy Griffin and I are about to take some very relatable questions from the audience. We'll hear from a mother who says after reading Amy's book, The Tell, she sat down with her four daughters for a serious talk about sexual violence and grooming. Amy also shares her advice for parents. That's next.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Welcome back to Oprah's Book Club presented by Starbucks. Many parents today may worry about how to talk to their children about the dangers of grooming and sexual violence. That is why I thought it was important to have a conversation with author Amy Griffin, who shares her own experience of sexual abuse when she was a child. in her memoir, The Tell.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Sometimes we keep secrets to survive. And then a moment arrives when the usefulness of the secret expires. Keeping it becomes the thing that hurts us all. We have to tell. So what is the secret you've come to tell?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
We're taking questions from our readers on how to have these honest conversations with children and with loved ones. A quick reminder, this subject is not suitable for young children and may be upsetting for some viewers and listeners. Well, the audience has questions for you. Where's Sarah? Sarah, tell us what happened when you read this book.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
I'm sure your mother, being the loving, kind person that she is, this would devastate your mother. I mean, not that your father wouldn't be too, but I'm sure it almost took your mother out, did it not?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
I have to say, though, that your ability to talk about your family and share your family in a way that allows us to see the connection to you but doesn't expose them in any way is that you did a really good job. That's why I say well done. That's a hard thing to do.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
That's a hard thing to do because everybody gets to tell their own story or should be able to tell their own story, but I felt like we were brought into the family and understood it.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And also, I would say this, that over the years, what I've learned, the word grooming is, you know, obviously a word that's a part of our culture. But I have found in so many cases, and certainly in mine also, that it's more about seduction. And so you are seduced before you know you're seduced. Mm-hmm.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
That's the thing, those of you with young children, and particularly if you think, oh, my child would tell me, it's challenging when you have been seduced and lured, particularly by somebody that you know and you trust. Right. And that's why you need to have the conversation about it's not, you know, in Amy's case, there was a lot of violence involved and, you know, crudeness and horror.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
But in many cases, it isn't. It isn't. It is more of a seduction and the child is lured. And before they know it, they think it's their fault because they're lured. And so you need to have that conversation also. Thank you, Sarah. Casey, you have a question.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
John, can you explain to us the long no, short yes philosophy? Because when I said that, I go, I'm going to remember this. I remember at one point, because I had the same thing, problem that you had. Anybody who's abused has had this issue of boundaries.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Like you don't know how to set a boundary and you spend your lifetime trying to set the boundaries because you're trying to please everybody and make everything OK. So at one point. When I was here in Chicago, I had a little sign on my desk that says, remember what yes feels like. Because there is a feeling you get instantly from a yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
So when I read that your philosophy is long no, short yes, I thought, I love that.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And make us sick. That's why that phrase, you're as sick as your secrets, is absolutely true.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Let me pray on it a minute. I'll get back to you. Yeah, it just feels like, yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Thank you. I think a lot of working moms relate to what you were saying, that you wore your busyness, you said, like a badge of honor. You all relate to that. You wore your busyness. That's what you're talking about too, right? You wore your busyness like a badge of honor. Has that changed for you?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And so the girls, as you said, the girls didn't question, why didn't you tell her? all the other things that so many other people look at, but they were just there for you and saw you as a full person in that moment.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Hmm. Chantel, it's your birthday, and I know you have a question. First of all, let's all say... Happy birthday to you.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
I had to do something recently and Gail goes, go sit in the tub. Okay.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And then she's now telling her daughters and then they're telling their friends. And that is what it means to pass it on.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Amy grew up the oldest of four children in Amarillo, Texas, where her family ran a chain of convenience stores called Tootin' Totem. She describes her childhood in the Texas panhandle as free, but at the same time, ruled by order.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
I think you have reason enough already. I think the fact that she's sitting down with her daughters and having the conversation. And everybody leaving here who has read the book is going to have a conversation with somebody else. You're already doing it. And I thank you so much, as I said in the beginning, for having the courage.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And I just want to second what you just said, that every time you tell the story, you find somebody who is worthy of your trust. who's worthy of your trust. And I know that if we have this many women in a room and the stats are one out of three, there are a lot of us who have stories to tell about what has happened. And you find just one person, as Amy was saying, just one person.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And the more you tell it, the more you release. And the whole goal is freedom for yourself, is liberation. The tell is about liberation. And I wanted to ask you, do you finally feel free?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the gift of liberation, Lainey Griffin. Thank you. The Tell, a memoir, is available wherever books are sold. And I hope this episode inspires all of you who are watching or listening to read The Tell and share it with a loved one. Audience, thank you for your really thoughtful questions. And thanks to our extraordinary partner, Starbucks for supporting us.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
I love the idea of good coffee and good books and good company all coming together at your neighborhood Starbucks cafe. And the pairing this month, as I said, is the anniversary blend. And we hope you all join our community and become a part of all of our conversations on the Oprah podcast.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Subscribe to the show on YouTube and follow us on Spotify or Apple podcasts or wherever you listen or watch us here on YouTube. Go well, everybody. Thank you, Amy. Thank you. I want you to know this conversation is not intended to offer medical advice.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Psychedelics remain illegal in most states, so I encourage you to consult your own health care professional before considering any kind of mental health treatment.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Can you articulate for the people who, everybody here has read the book and they have questions, but there are millions, thank you for being millions, who are watching us who don't know what the secret is. So can you tell them what is the secret that you discovered?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Okay, so you were abused by your middle school teacher for... multiple years, even into high school. But you did not have a memory of it until much later in life. And we'll talk about how that memory came about. And once you discovered that memory of it, you wanted to go after him. Because who wouldn't want to do that? And you were in pursuit of that and realized what?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Amy, this is Oprah calling you about the towel.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Okay. You know, you start the book talking about how you're running. First of all, that you're a great runner. We can see. Not anymore. Not anymore. Excelling in academics and athletics, Amy earned a scholarship to play volleyball at the University of Virginia. After graduation, she moved to New York City, landing a job in marketing for magazines like Ms. and Working Mother.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Before moving on to Sports Illustrated, she continued to be an avid runner and athlete. We learn in the book that you're running, running, running, running, running all the time, and that, you know, you were an athlete and that it was one of the central driving forces in your life.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
You were literally physically running, but also running from one thing to the next all the time, often having multiple injuries. And at one point, the therapist said to you, what is it your body is trying to tell you? So what is it that happened that absolutely stopped you in your tracks?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
You know, it's so interesting because people who know you, friends of yours who say you were not just a runner physically, but that you literally, that they literally were like, why do you have to do everything? You need to just sit down. Why can't you just relax? that you were always the person who was doing all the things all the times.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Well, I'm happy for that. All right, let us begin. You deserve to be validated. Let's begin. Hi, everybody. I'm so glad you joined us for Oprah's Book Club presented by Starbucks. So I'm in my old Chicago neighborhood at a Starbucks cafe. And for almost 30 years, I lived like three blocks up the street. And I'm in such good company here. Chicago is truly my kind of town.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And in your 40s, you describe in the tell how it looked like, certainly to those of us from the outside, that you were living this picture-perfect life. You were married to the love of your life, John, with four healthy children. Amy fell in love and married her husband, John Griffin, the founder of Blue Ridge Capital, in 2003.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Together, they have four children, 20-year-old Jack, 18-year-old Gracie, 15-year-old Gigi, and 12-year-old Julian. They live in New York City. Hello, Don, amongst all these women here. Four healthy children. You had a high-powered career funding female founders. And you should have felt on top of the world. And yet you write, it was like my body knew something that I didn't.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And as the years ticked forward, my body kept telling me to slow down, but you just couldn't. And you say at another point in the book, it looked like I had the perfect life. And yet, and yet, and yet, yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Okay. You're not listening to yourself. Okay. Not only not listening to yourself, this is what's so interesting to me. So you have this picture perfect life and all of your friends think your life is perfect, yet they know that you're the one who's always running around all the time. And one night you were confronted by your two daughters, which I thought was so powerful.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Didn't you love that moment when the daughters say to her, they were young at the time, I think it was Gigi at the time, 11 years old, right? And tell us what happened.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
But she said, Mom, you're really nice.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
But you're not real. She said, Mom, you're nice, but you're not real. And you're not really there. Where are you? Which I would think, as a mother, would that not just pull you up? That would pull you up, right? I wanted to take that out of the book.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
You could never take that out of the book. That's a main key part of the book.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
But also, when your 11-year-old child says that, and she's with Gracie, who was, what, 13 at the time? When your daughters call you in for, come to Jesus meeting about yourself. That has got to stop you in your tracks and make you think, what is going on and what are they seeing or feeling that I'm not? Is that what happened? A hundred percent.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Well, that's pretty powerful. I got to say that's pretty powerful for your daughters to do that. John, when she told you that, what'd you think?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Okay, John, let me ask you this. What Gigi and Gracie brought up to their mom, had you sensed that or felt that too with the running and the running and the running and the what is, yeah, had you sensed that?
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
And you readers are my kind of people. So welcome. Your neighborhood Starbucks store is, I believe, just the perfect place to gather with friends or discuss a good book and enjoy a delicious cup of coffee. And the pairing for our March book club pick is the anniversary blend, they're calling it. It's a seasonal, full-flavored coffee with notes of cedar-y spice and black truffle.
The Oprah Podcast
Amy Griffin: “The Tell” | Oprah’s Book Club
Yeah. And around this time, I understand that you had started taking psychedelic-assisted therapy for your own reasons, correct? And you suggested that it may be helpful to her.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
This episode of The Oprah Podcast is presented by Ulta Beauty. The possibilities are beautiful. It is a joy to be with you here on The Oprah Podcast, and I know your time means a lot to you, so I think it's just so special for me that you all are listening or watching on YouTube. Lots of people... Have Valentine's Day on their minds this week.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Well, you got the best expert here to help you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Esther sees beyond the stories we tell ourselves. How did you know that? You don't even know her. And she's here to offer her unflinching truths. Say that again. Foreplay starts. At the end of the previous orgasm. So everybody, thanks for joining us on this podcast. I'm so happy.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
You're one of the people who is speaking the truth to families and people in relationships in a way, I think, that resonates profoundly and is actually changing the way people see themselves in their lives and relationships. So power to you for doing that in the world. Thank you. I try. And may I tell you, I don't know how I discovered these cards.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
I love what you said about where do you want to go? And I saw something in your eyes. Where do you want to go and what do you want to experience in this sexual encounter that it's not just about the act? Did that resonate with you, Christina?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
That's why women are reluctant. Like if we have a conversation about it, we're going to talk about it. It's going to make you want more of it. And I'm just trying to have a conversation about it. That's what you're saying, Christina. Yes. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
I actually don't even remember how, but I actually ordered these on Amazon for myself. I got them for myself and then I love them so much. I send them out to friends because this is what happens when people come for dinner and Or come over for an evening and not everybody knows everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Because you know cuddling is going to lead you to something else. But a lot of women feel this. A lot of women say this all the time. I just want to cuddle. And you're reluctant to even initiate cuddling because you know it's going to lead to another whole thing.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
You desire her and she desires you. Yes. I hope this has been helpful. Some things to talk about. Think about. Thank you. Best microphones yet. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Next up is Jen, a married mom from Philadelphia. Jen wrote to us about what she called her past baggage. How is that impacting you? What did you want to say, Tess?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
What I found is that if you go through the cards and you pull out the cards and you make sure that the sexy cards are not there, children are there. And then I have a thing where everybody pulls a card and then I have them do another card and then another card. We do rounds of people pulling cards. So you have a whole stack of cards. So you don't just get one card. You get to choose from that card.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Wow. I could cry over that. That resonates really powerfully with me. I heard that. Did you hear it, Jen? Absolutely.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
I received it for sure. Oh my God, that was so good.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
The question that you want to answer. And we go around and around. And it is so... Storytelling night. It's storytelling. It becomes storytelling. And it becomes an opportunity for people to express things and say things. I mean, I've learned things about my godchildren that I did not know. And so where should we begin?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
I thought that was really powerful. How did you know that? You don't even know her.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
So you're holding on to that, still protecting yourself. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
That's how you stay in control. Oh, that resonated with me.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
And now you're the one who brought up the universe. And so the universe has put you in this position so you can do exactly what Esther was just saying. You can lean back into it. You can lean into him and you can allow. I love those two terms that you used for her. Lean and allow.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Jan, thank you so much for sharing your story. Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
And for matching the walls in the house, for wearing the blouse that matches the chair that matches the wall. I mean, really, the decor is perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Erica from Texas has been married for 32 years. She has three adult children, and now she's starting to have some doubts Are you about your marriage? Tell us why.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Which is, I know, based on your podcast, you've been doing that popular podcast for a few years now. It. Yes. Yes. Yes. So, which is just a perfect title. I love it. And so where... It's how I start many sessions, you know.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
exploration for creativity for things that are the opposite of i'm taking care of my mom my three children my husband i've been doing it i'm the only daughter i'm the child it's you know my responsibility my duty and you know what's so interesting when you watch this makes me want to cheer up When she asked you, what was your wish? What happened to your face?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
And what makes me want to tear up is I know nobody's asked you that. Nobody's asked you that. What do you really want?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
I saw it in your eyes, and I know Esther saw it in your eyes. You were like, because you said, me? What? For myself. For myself? Because nobody's asked you that, and you haven't asked you that. You haven't asked you that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Do you have a thought about what that would be? Have you even thought about that?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Yes. And I love this question. I just pulled these for us today. Something I wish I had been told as a child. What would that be for you? Something I wish I'd been told as a child.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
I could see you get that, Erika. I could see you get that. So let's start there.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Yes, I can see that landed. Yes. Yes, it did. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Thank you. Thank you, Erica. Thank you so much. After this break, Esther shares the one thing you can do today to feel more alive in all of your relationships. Don't you want to know what that is? Stay with us. Our friends at Ulta Beauty want to help you honor your bestie in a big way. Share why they're so special in a post, tag your bestie and at Ulta Beauty.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Ulta is going to pay the joy forward with a chance to receive a surprise and delight beauty experience. I so appreciate you taking the time to join us on the Oprah podcast. We're back with more profound truths about love and relationships from Esther Perel. Barbara was married for 20 years to a man she describes as emotionally abusive. Can you tell us briefly what happened? Hi, Barb. Hello.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Was there an affair?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Thank you, Barbara. Thank you. Thank you so much to both of you. Thank you very much. One of your most well-known quotes I like so much is this one, that the quality of our relationships determines the quality of our lives. Yes. When did you know this to be true?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
And did she ever?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Oh, that was the day where people were so uncomfortable.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
You know, you've counseled so many thousands of people throughout the world and heard their stories and challenges and relationships. And I'm wondering what you have concluded is the basis for a well-lived life.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
And I know that for some people that brings up thoughts of romance and lack of romance. But my guest is renowned, renowned as a relationship therapist, an expert. She studies it. She knows it in her spirit, in her heart, in her brain. Esther Perel says all of our relationships with our family, with our friends, even our neighbors have a real impact on our most intimate relationships.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
That's why I thought the advice that you were giving to Christina and Stefan and to her particularly about her own arousal and eroticism was so poignant because I think for so many people, they think eroticism is only about sex.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Yeah. My answer to that... What would you say? I would say, I wish I had been told that I was loved. Yes. Because I don't... I never, ever heard... I love you or had the feeling of you are loved as a child.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
So not. So not.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
That is why the importance of the erotic is so essential. I love that. I love that you're able to do that for people. I so appreciate that you were able to come here to be a part of the Oprah podcast. Astaire's podcast is called Where Should We Begin? And where should we begin? A game of stories is available on her website, astaireperral.com.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
So thank you to my guests, all of you for asking your thoughtful questions to Erica and Jen and Christina and Stefan and Barbara. Thank you all. A very special thanks to our friends at Ulta Beauty for sponsoring today's episode. Go well, everybody. You can subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
I know so many people get so much out of your podcast. Why did you decide to do the podcast? And what was your hope and greatest intention for it?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Even if it's not your story, you can see yourself in the other story. I hear that you now think that modern romance is going through some kind of change or makeover. What's going on out there? What's changed?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Oh, into me see.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
That's where we are.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
But when you were saying that, I remember early on in my relationship with Stedman, Maya Angelou, my advisor and friend, a wise woman, was saying, do not, your life is a whole pie. Mm-hmm. Your life is made up of a whole pie, much of what you're just saying about a village. And so do not expect one person to represent everything that the pie is supposed to represent. Totally agree.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
So based upon what you just said, everybody expects your partner now to really be what the realm of the divine used to be in people's lives. Isn't that too much? Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
So welcome to the Tea House.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Because you don't fulfill all of those things, I'm going to eliminate you from my life because you are not perfect.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
And then that person's not going to be able to do it either. So what is your advice to someone who's listening who may be feeling...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Esther Perel is a psychotherapist and bestselling author who's been counseling couples for over three decades.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Oh, I love that you can have a thousand friends on social media and no one to feed your cat.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
You end up feeling emptier.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Emptier. And you teach a course on turning conflict into connection. Yeah. And I've always wanted to know, why does it seem that couples fight over and over about the same thing?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
It's not about the straw.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
I think her greatest gift is her intuitive insight into the human heart and mind. She really blows me away. Wow, I could cry over that. That resonates really powerfully with me. I heard that. Did you hear it, Jen? Absolutely. Her hit podcast, Where Should We Begin, is a must-listen for anybody looking to better understand the complexities of relationships.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
You're not my soft place to fall.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
Time for a break, y'all. Up next, Esther's critical advice for busy couples looking to get that spark back in the bedroom. I know that's so common, so you don't want to miss what she says. We'll be back. It's that time of year when we celebrate love, not just romantic love, but also the special connections we share with our best friends.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
And what I know for sure is that real friendships bring joy to your life. So now our friends at Ulta Beauty want to help you honor your bestie in a big way. Listen to this. Let's start a ripple effect of joy together. Post about your bestie. Tag them and at Ulta Beauty. Share why they're so special to you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
And when you do, Ulta is going to pay the joy forward with a chance to receive a surprise and delight Ulta Beauty experience. The possibilities are beautiful. Thank you for taking the time to be with me here. We're back with Esther Perel, host of the hugely popular Where Should We Begin podcast. We're talking about love and relationships of all kinds. Let's get back to it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Esther Perel on the 3 Things Every Human Needs to Find Love
We have guests who are joining us on Zoom that I think a lot of you are going to relate to. So let's jump in. Christina and Stefan are in Atlanta. And I hear that you two are very much in love and you're raising three beautiful boys, four, six and nearly eight. Okay, where should we begin? What's going on? Hi, guys.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
And I love what you said about that. Everybody's already voted. You had the two candidates. The decisions have been made. And so let them. It's done. Now decide what you can do and let yourself do that. And if you can't, let them.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
So everybody, thanks for joining us on this podcast. I'm so glad to be able to have this time to share with my very, very special guest, Mel Robbins. Hey, it's your friend Mel.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
And that's why you say you're never stuck. All the people who say you get stuck, you're never stuck because you always get to choose. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
yes yeah you say that's a lie to yourself that you can you can leave a job you can leave a relationship you can leave a living situation a date an interview or conversation whatever you're never stuck never ever ever ever ever stuck yes and and and here's i want to really underline this because we convince ourselves when you stay in a job
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Well, I had so many underlined spaces in this book. I was just like, well, I just need to stop highlighting and just read the whole book. Okay. I love this on page 90. You're so much stronger than anyone's opinions about you. And I think that is so... I need to remind myself about that now because there's so much, you know, vitriol and crazy things and conspiracy theories and...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
all kinds of nutsoid stuff on the internet that I just can't even imagine. People think that's true or they're saying those things about me, but let them.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Mel Robbins began her career as an attorney and worked sometimes as a radio host. While she and her husband, Chris, were raising their three children, a business failure landed them $800,000 in debt. To make money, Mel started a new path as a life coach and motivational speaker. A friend invited her to do a TEDx talk. Mel called it, How to Stop Screwing Yourself Over.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Yes, please do.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
And you do this all day long. Yeah, well, that's why I like when you say, let me live my life to make myself proud. Let me make decisions that align with my own values. Let me take risks because I want to. Let me follow the path my soul is turning me toward. That's why we're all here.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
That is so powerful. Okay, when did you learn that? Did you have to learn that the hard way? Did something have to happen?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Well, I want to talk about people that feel like they can still control other people. You say... Here's the truth. When you push someone, it only makes the person push back. You're working against the fundamental law of human nature. People need to feel in control of their decisions. You want people in your life to change, but pressuring them creates resistance to it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
You may be acting with the best of intentions, but it's yielding the worst results. That's because every time you fight against human nature, you will lose.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
It turned out to be a prophetic title.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Let's talk about that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
That's what I loved that you emphasized over and over again. Nobody's going to change until they're ready.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
It's now one of the most watched TEDx talks ever and was the catalyst for the Mel Robbins millions know and follow today. Her mix of authenticity and no-nonsense advice is the secret behind two best-selling books and her mega hit, The Mel Robbins Podcast.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Because now they'll just try to hide it from you or not be truthful with you or not be forthcoming.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
I love this because this is a big lesson for people with adult children who they are still supporting financially. You say when you enable others with money, your words and your actions, you don't foster independence at all. No. I mean, I had to learn this the hard way because you think by giving people money. And I can tell you for sure, it does the exact opposite. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
It does the exact opposite.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
You were going about it the wrong way because, what, you just didn't know or you didn't know?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Powerhouse speaker, your global podcast sensation and best-selling author. Just, I mean, can you even take all of that in yourself? Can you take it all in?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Share with us what happened when you went to your friend's newly remodeled house. One of the reasons I appreciate this book so much is all the stories, you know, Molly, the interior designer. I mean, the fact that you are allowing us to see inside of your mistakes the way that you do.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
And be happy for her.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
I remember going to a producer's home who was the richest person I ever known at that time when I was in Baltimore, Arlene Weiner, and I walked into her home and the house was surrounded by trees and there were trees when you looked out the kitchen window. And I was like, wow, Arlene is rich. If I ever get some money, I'm going to have a house with trees. Yeah. And so I use that as my motivation.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
When I first was hired by Steven Spielberg for The Color Purple, I went to his studio at Amlin, and that's what gave me the idea for myself. Oh, my God, that means this is possible? A person can have their own studio? So... It resonated so deeply with me what you were saying is because I've applied those principles, not even knowing I was applying those principles all these years.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Instead of? Saying it's happened for them means it's possible that it can also happen for me.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
I have over the years read probably thousands of books. And this is by far just one of the best self-help books I've ever read. It is right up there with all the greats. All the greats. And the reason it is, I think it's a life changer. It's life altering for anybody who reads it because it's your personal story.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Oh, so good. The chapters on relationships, so good. And oh, how I wish I had this book in my 20s. I'm getting this book for every single girl at my school. Every single girl. You are never too young to learn this lesson of let them. And on page 40, you say, the question is, I wish I'd had this. The question is, why do you want to be with someone who does this to you? And the answer is,
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Bing, bing, bing. You don't. Don't waste your energy chasing someone who's already left.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Yeah, that's why Maya Angelou always said, that's my favorite lesson, you know that one, when people show you who they are, believe them the first time, because they always show you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Okay, so how do you differentiate between letting them? They're not giving you the intention that you feel that you deserve, so let them. They're not giving you what you want, so let them. How do you distinguish between that and I now need to move on to don't waste your energy chasing someone who's already left? Yes. Because in essence, that person's already gone.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
They're not giving you what you want. How do you know the difference? In terms of who's worth fighting for?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Or they are showing you through their behavior that the relationship is over.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
There's so many gems in this book. I just, I don't even know what to tell y'all. You just need to get the book. You need to get the audio book and start underlining for yourself and keep it by your bedside table is what I would say. On page 104, you say people can only meet you as deeply as they meet themselves.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Most people haven't gone to therapy and they haven't looked at their issues and they don't want to. But the fact is most human beings, you say, have never done the work to understand themselves. And so they can't begin to be what you need them to be because they haven't been able to do it for themselves. And a therapist shared this with you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
I believe that is true.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
I know there are many people listening to us right now. You're in working situations where you are around people who are behaving like they are in middle school still and they're grownups and they're coming to work in their suits and things every day and are still, because most people are still emotionally there.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
It's like you're speaking into our ear and it comes with your knowledge and your acknowledgement of the mistakes that you have made. And it just is there to set people free. Yes. That's what you've done. Thank you. That's what you did. Thank you. It's incredible. It's incredible. I couldn't believe it. Page after page after page after page. Yes. Yes. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
You know, this book is so important. And I say that understanding like what it takes to live a life that's fulfilled and on purpose and given in service. It's so important for where we are now in our culture. I think that For whatever reason, you've been given this moment in time to speak to people in this way is going to change so many lives. And I'm wondering how that sits with you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
What kind of space, this kind of power in this moment holds for you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Why do you think this all came together in this moment in time for you? I mean, you've been working at it a long time and you've made mistakes and you start the book talking about being $800,000 in debt, which for most people, how do you ever overcome that? And And so when you sit with your husband and you talk about why now, why this moment now, what is the answer to that? What happened?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
I couldn't believe it. And it's so simple. You know what I love about it is, is that you are saying in these pages everything I was trying to say for 25 years, day after day after day after day after day after day. So let's start with the light bulb moment. Can we start the light bulb moment? Yes. The prom. I love this moment.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
I wish for you the greatest success. I hope this book stays on the bestseller list. I hope it never goes off. I really do. It's a game changer. But it's not just a game changer. It's a life changer. It's a life enhancement. I think when people read the book, you're going to want to share it with other people. There's so, so, so much more that we didn't get to in this conversation.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
The Let Them Theory is on sale December 24th. Wow, give it to yourself as the gift for 2025. You can also pre-order it now. Buy one for yourself. I'm telling you, don't just buy one. You need to buy at least two or three. Do not just buy one because you're going to be reading it and you're going to want to give it to somebody else.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
And then you're going to mark up your book and you're not going to want to give them your book. So you need to get more than one. I'm telling you, it's a perfect gift for the new year. Make it your personal goal to let them. And of course, Mel is also the host of the wildly popular Mel Robbins podcast. Thank you, everybody, for listening. Congratulations on this. Thank you. I love you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
I love you too. You can subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Yeah. And why couldn't you just let them? So what if the sneakers get wet? And so what? You left out the part about the whole corsage. You wanted her to have the corsage. And then your son said, Oakley said, no, no corsage. And then you're standing there with the corsage. Let them. Let her not have the corsage. Let them. I was so.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
We've never met. I hear that distinct voice.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
I have no power over.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
But I do have power because I can leave the store. Yes. I always say that. That's why I love that Wizard of Oz. There's so many wonderful teachings there. When Glinda the Good Witch says, go away, you have no power here. It's because that's not your territory. You only have territory in your own body, in your own person. Yes. And you have no power in anybody else's territory. This is what I love.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
In my mind, the crux of the let them, let me theory, which is most important, is that the more you say this, the more you allow people to live their lives, the better your life will get. The more control you give up, the more you actually gain. Can you explain that, Mel?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
I love this on page 56. You say, why get stressed out about things beyond your control? It don't really matter. How does something so small have such a large impact on you? Because you allow it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
You're having a moment.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
And it helps you detach. But I also like what you say, Mel, that it's not the same thing as letting go. Let them is not the same thing as letting go. Explain that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
That's right, that you surrendered.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
Well, this is one of the things I love about you and your podcast and your work here on the planet at this time where it's most needed. You break down complicated ideas into simple terms and forms that people can understand and relate to.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
And so let them, you know, the Buddhists have said it, the Stoics have said it, great religions have all talked about letting go and letting God, but you put it in
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins Talk the One Change That Can Improve Your Life
common everyday language and principles that are not just relatable but resonate and that's why I had aha after aha after aha moment when I was reading this book and I know that you are a woman who's made for this time for such a time as this yes and everybody needs this tool because there is so much in the world right now that is out of your control yes
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Hey, everybody. Hey, there. A warm welcome to you. Thanks for joining me here on the Oprah podcast. I am actually really excited to talk to Jonathan Haidt about his book, The Anxious Generation, how the great rewiring of childhood is causing an epidemic of mental illness. This book is doing something That you actually don't see often these days.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Jonathan's New York Times bestseller, The Anxious Generation, how the great rewiring of childhood is causing an epidemic of mental illness, digs into the skyrocketing mental health crisis in young people.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
I saw Carrie shaking her head. Carrie, yeah, go ahead. Carrie.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Wow. Can I ask you, but don't you have to be without it in school because hasn't Florida banned the phones in schools?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Jonathan Haidt joins us. Thank you for joining me from your office at NYU. Hello. Hello, Oprah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
I see his face though, Jonathan, when you say a month. Can you imagine? He can't be without it for an hour. So the idea of a month feels like punishment, feels like torture, feels like how in the world is he going to do that? Are you getting anxiety even hearing this, Nick? Like you're going to be disconnected from the world?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
So this book has been on the New York Times bestsellers list now for one year. And I would say it's because it's resonating. And any time I run into parents who are talking about what to... I don't know what we're going to do about all these phones. I go, have you read The Anxious Generation? So many people have read it. What do you think it is that's...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Disconnected from the world, disconnected from your friends and what that means and all of that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
That's right. It would. Can I ask this, Jonathan? Can I interrupt? Is it like other addictions where you have to hit rock bottom or at least reach a place where you see... I mean, in the beginning, Nick says he realizes that he's an addict and has a problem.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
But maybe he doesn't think the problem is enough to actually cause him long-term problems and doesn't understand the consequences of the long-term problems. So until you actually realize that this is dangerous to my brain and my mental health, why do you need to give it up?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
What would that mean at 25 if he doesn't stop? And what you just said about the brain.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Because between 25 and 26 is when that prefrontal cortex locks in. That's when you're fully an adult when the whole brain has been developed after 25, 26, right? That's right.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
What do you think of that?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Kept it on the New York Times bestsellers list and has kept you running from one seminar to the next talking about this.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
And he will feel in the beginning exactly what addicts feel when they go cold turkey. It will be painful. It will be painful for about a week because of what's going on in his brain, not just him being agitated, but what's actually happening in the brain. Exactly. Exactly. All right, guys. I hope this helps.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Something to think about. Something to think about. We'll check in later to see what actually happened. Thank you, Nick. Thank you for being willing to participate. Thank you. Thank you for listening. I am so glad you joined me here on the Oprah Podcast. When we come back, we're going to talk to a mom who discovered that her daughter, a 13-year-old honor student...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
and star athlete was hiding a secret persona that she created online. We'll hear what her daughter has to say about that next. Hi there.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
A warm welcome back to you. So glad to be with you here. I'm with New York Times bestselling author Jonathan Haidt, and we're talking with parents and teens who are deep in the throes of smartphone addiction. Leah is a single mom to a 13-year-old daughter, Estella, and she recently did a deep dive into her daughter's social media accounts, and she was shocked by what she found.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Leah, what did you discover? Thank you both for joining us here. Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
And your daughter had a different what I what I was reading from the producers is that you're that Estella had. a very different persona online than the persona that you knew. So, Estella, hi, welcome. Hello. Did you purposely create or present a different persona online than you believe yourself to be?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Okay. So what's going on with the teens who are basically addicted? Would you say that there is an addiction problem?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
And so creating this different persona made you feel what?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
What's your question for Jonathan?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
It's causing a real shift in public opinion and even policies in a big way. For anyone under the age of 25 and certainly for other age groups, much of life is lived through smartphones, tablets and on social media. On this episode, we are asking the question, at what cost?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Thank you. Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
I would say addicted. Wow. And according to the CDC, 11 to 14-year-olds are spending up to nine hours a day on their screens. And you call this the great rewiring of childhood. What impact, you just said it's addiction, but what impact is all this screen time having on young minds? I can't, I'm blown away by that two-year-old statistics. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
40% of people now with two-year-olds, 40% of them, Jonathan was saying, the new survey shows, are on iPads at two years old. What's going to happen to, they're not even going to be able to function in first and second grade with their brains.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Well, thank you, Mala and Uma. Thank you so much. And thank you for your wonderful words at the beginning of this. All those years, I helped raise you, Mala.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Yeah. Thank you so much. Good luck to you both. I hope you take everything you've heard here and what you've read here. And you're such a beautiful, already smart girl. You want to enhance that in the world and be able to be fully present. There's actually nothing better. So good luck to you both. Thank you, Mala and Uma.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
So Alicia is a mom of two who says she notices a big difference between how boys and girls use social media, which is exactly what we were just saying here. Jonathan, just I hope you were listening that for girls, it's different boys. It's different. Alicia and her 13 year old son, Caleb, and 15 year old daughter, Serene. Is it Serene or Sirene? Sirene. Sirene are joining us from Houston.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Hi, Alicia. What have you noticed? What have you noticed?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Caleb? And Cyrene, what do you all think of how social media is affecting you? Caleb, let's hear from you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
And, Cyrene, for you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Yeah. So, Alicia, what did you want to say? Did you have a question?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Well, I don't know if you've read The Anxious Generation or not. Have you read this book yet, Alicia?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
You absolutely have to read The Anxious Generation. Because what Jonathan is trying to do is to get communities together to agree. Because if you're going to quit your phone by yourself, you are going to feel isolated and alone. But if you get together with other parents, go ahead, Jonathan.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Thank you, Alicia. Thank you, Caleb and Cyrene.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Thank you all. Thank you all. Beautiful family. So, Jonathan, here we are. What can parents do right now to help their children escape what you refer to as the smartphone trap?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Thank you, Jonathan. Jonathan and I are going to be talking again in a few months, so keep an eye out for that. We'll have an announcement we're excited to share with you and all who follow his work. So thank you to our parents and teens and Carrie and Nick and Alicia and Cyrene and Caleb and Leah and Estella and Mala and Uma for sharing your honest experiences with us here today.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
The Anxious Generation is available now anywhere where books are sold. It continues to be a bestseller because parents need this information and are opening up to a new way of being
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
with their children after recognizing that what jonathan says in this book is so powerful and effective so if you're wondering what do i do and how do we solve it and oh my god this is taking over our family this is your answer see you all next week go well everybody you can subscribe to the oprah podcast on youtube and follow us on spotify apple podcasts or wherever you listen i'll see you next week thanks everybody
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Yeah, I read an article recently about the college kids arriving in school now. Many of them have not actually ever completed a book, which was it was so startling to me. You know, you didn't have to actually read a book. You read sections of a book or portions of a book or you got this online. You know, I find that really to be incredible.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
We are only just beginning to understand the impact social media and smart devices have on the mental and emotional health of young people whose brains are still developing. I know this is an issue that is top of mind for many of you parents.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
So you also believe, you say in The Anxious Generation, which should be in every parent's home, whether your kids are 2 or 12 or 15, you believe that parents are overprotecting their children in the physical world, you say, or real world, while underprotecting them online. And why should this sound an alarm for the parents who are listening to us right now?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Or show us your stomach or show us your this or show us any body part. That's where they all are.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Jonathan, you said giving social media to teenage girls is like handing them a gun. I think that is so potent. How do young women use social media differently than young men?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
You were saying that you went on Snapchat as a 14-year-old. Your daughter is 15. So is your daughter on Snapchat?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Social psychologist, NYU professor, and best-selling author Jonathan Haidt is on a mission to reach parents not only about his belief of the harmful effects of smartphones and social media, but also to help them take action now to prevent potential long-term damage in their children.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
That's right. I am so glad you've joined us for this vital conversation that I know many of you are concerned about. Coming up, we're going to be talking to a teenager who's so addicted to his phone, he even takes it in the shower with him. You'll hear what Jonathan has to say about that next.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Welcome back to more of my conversation with Jonathan Haidt about his belief in the harmful effects of smartphones and social media on teenagers' emotional and mental well-being. Okay, since we have Jonathan here, we wanted to hear from parents and from teens. Carrie, she says her 17-year-old son Nick spends 10 hours a day on his phone, even watching videos in the shower.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Wow, Nick, I didn't know you could bring the phone in the shower, but apparently... I didn't either.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Because you can't be without the phone long enough to shower.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Okay. Would you, okay. So Carrie, let's hear from you. What concerns you most about Nick's phone usage? Thank you both for being here, by the way. Thank you, Nick, for joining.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jonathan Haidt on How Social Media Is Changing Childhood
Nick, do you think you're addicted? Do you think you have a problem? Oh, yes, 100%. 100% there's a problem. Okay. That's a good start. That's a good start. Is it, Jonathan, a good start?
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
For me, that is the obstacle shows itself and I immediately say to the obstacle, what are you here to show me? What are you here to teach me? Yes. And accept that you're here to show me something and then try to figure out what it is you need to do. Yes. Yes. I know Annabelle in our audience is a first timer. Annabelle, tell us about your experience.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Terrific. Director and actor Chris Evans is an avid reader of Eckhart's work, and we asked if he wanted to join this book club conversation. And even though he's filming a movie on the other side of the world, Chris is Zooming from Athens. Whoa, look at you. Hey. Hi, Chris.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Over the years, right now, you all are online with me from every corner on our planet. I've always been eager to share a new earth. This is my own free copy of the book. This year marks the 20th anniversary of the book. It's been translated into 50 languages and sold more than 15 million copies.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Thanks for listening. We'll be right back with more of my conversation with Eckhart Tolle.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Welcome back to you. I'm talking with a great spiritual teacher, Eckhart Tolle. I am so glad that you are with us. Thank you for joining us. I have to tell you, I thought I was the biggest Eckhart person on the planet, but you're taking it to the next level, I hear. Tell us about your tattoo. I don't have an Eckhart tattoo.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Wow. So why do you think this particular quote resonated so profoundly with you, Chris?
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And where is it on you? Right on my chest, right there. Okay, okay, I love that. Okay, I love that. And did you have a question for Eckhart?
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
On this podcast, we're taking a deep dive into some of Eckhart's key concepts like recognizing the ego.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Isn't that a profound thing to be able to say, the unhappiness has not survived in me? The seeds of Eckhart's evolution emerged from a difficult childhood. Born in Germany in 1948, Eckhart's parents separated when he was a child. He eventually became a distinguished research scholar at Cambridge, but his burgeoning success failed to soothe the anxiety and depression that dogged him.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
At age 29, pushed to the brink of despair, Eckhart contemplated suicide. It's in this moment of pain a new awareness was born. Eckhart says he experienced a spiritual transformation so profound his suffering disappeared.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
They're not complaining about being unhappy. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I know, Chris, I was saying to the audience before, and I don't know if you heard me, Eckhart is actually the only person of the thousands and thousands and thousands of people I've interviewed who has no ego, who just I mean, who is who who not only writes about it, but actually lives it and walks the walk.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And so I'm not surprised that your unhappiness has not survived in you. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for joining us on the other side of the world. Thanks for taking the time to Zoom with us. Thank you so much. We love that tattoo.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Thank you. Michelle, where are you? You have a question. Go ahead.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Just to share that I read your book back in, I guess, 2007, and it sparked that awareness in me. But it wasn't until these past couple years of great trials and tribulations that the discipline, the motivation to become more present, to survive very challenging things to get relief from great pain and suffering. So it's been an awakening in me. I still get lost in the illusion of my mind.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And we'll hear from readers. I was blown away when I read your book. About how Eckhart's teachings have transformed their lives.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
But with great gratitude, it happens for shorter and shorter periods of time. And the gift has been a true reclaiming of my spirit, that which is unshakable.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
I read this book around 2007, and I really was changed by the book, A New Earth. I would have to say that this book has probably had more effect on my life than any other book I've read by a living author, okay? So that excludes the Bible. But by a living author, I would say this book has had the most impact on my life. And I thought I was having a pretty good life.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
I think this is really hard. What you're saying is, you are really E.T. Your initials are E.T., and you are like E.T., Sitting here in the chair because I don't know nobody else who could do that. You know, you hear that you get the cancer diagnosis and you go, oh, oh, I think my presence is going to come forward. You know, that's really, really. challenging for most of us in the world.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Yeah. And that's just because you stay in that space. It's always there. You are always aware that you are aware.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And you are always aware, even when you're speaking to us right now and having this conversation, that what you're saying, that your thoughts are not you.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
That's right. And so I think in one of the books you talk about, do you want to be right or do you want peace? Yeah. Yeah, that was another huge lesson for me. Do you want to be right or do you want to have peace? And I didn't realize in all those years when I'm like, well, I know I'm right. I am right. I even had a T-shirt that says, I know I'm right. That that that is that's an egoic move.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
You know, I thought it's just like, I know I'm right. So.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
So your need to prove that you're right is your ego. That's the ego. Needing to you. Yes. And how other ways does the ego show up? Because we wanted to establish that from the beginning. Like the difference between you and your ego is... I'm so glad you all are joining me on this podcast. We will be back in a moment with more of Eckhart Tolle.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
We're back with Eckhart Tolle talking about his life-changing seminal book, A New Earth.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And my life experience, my experience of myself as a human being, as a being on the planet, my ability to separate my thoughts from myself and to realize that I am the awareness disguised as a person. My ability to understand what he says on page 41, that life will give you exactly the experience you need for the evolution of your consciousness. And how do you know that?
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
People get so crazy sitting in traffic.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Eckhart says, as we grow spiritually, the ego becomes less reactive. When we encounter obstacles or difficult people, we face them consciously. The ego believes fighting back is power, but Eckhart says the opposite is actually true. Authentic power comes when we surrender and, as he writes, love the is-ness of the present moment. Okay, Denise S., where are you?
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
I heard you gave this to your adult children for Christmas.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
You had an awakening about the eagle also?
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
That's a wonderful awakening. Yeah, that's a big one. That's big. That's a big aha that opens the door to many other ahas.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Because that's the experience you are having right now. My ability to accept that, my ability to recognize that all stress is is wanting the moment you're in to be something else and that you are causing most of your suffering because you can't accept the present moment for what it is. I mean, it changed me and changed me and changed me and changed me.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
We're in a coffee house having coffee with Eckhart. I'm telling you. Hi, everybody. I am so excited to welcome you to Oprah's Book Club presented by Starbucks. It's so good to be here at the Starbucks inside the Empire State Building right in the center of Manhattan. So hello to all of you who are listening on the podcast or watching us on my YouTube channel.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And it's the thing that I ask myself, all the time before making any decisions is, is this my ego or am I doing this from the state of real awareness? What is the reason? What is the real intention behind it? Because if it is an ego-led decision, it's going to get me in trouble or I'm going to end up being resentful or I'm going to end up being upset with myself or someone else.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And I think being upset with yourself is actually worse than being upset with other people. So I'm constantly asking that question of myself for almost everything that I do. Is this an ego move or is this coming from my pure self?
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Grace is 26 years old and here with her mother. And I heard you wrote a note in your book. What is it?
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
I thought I knew what ego was until chapters two and three of this book. It changed me and changed me and changed me. It uplifted my life and enhanced it in ways that I cannot even describe. And I will tell you, it's the one book that is constantly by my nightstand. So I have the Bible there. I have Mary Oliver's poems there. And I have Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth there consistently all the time.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And every couple of years, I go back and I reread the entire book. And I was thinking about where we are in the world right now and what our consciousness really needs is a little enhancement, I thought. And I thought there's no book that's had more influence or power, in my opinion, to change the way you think about yourself and the way you think about the world than A New Earth.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
One of Eckhart's renowned practices is what he calls inner body awareness meditation. He says, when we focus on our breath and the aliveness in every cell, we free ourselves from the grip of the ego. Our compulsive thinking recedes and with it go our fears, resentments, and negativity. Over time, Eckhart says, breathing and inner body awareness lead directly to alert stillness and inner peace.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
I love that process. I also, anytime you're having a conversation or having a thought and you are aware of the thought, like you can hear yourself speaking and you are aware that you're having that thought, remembering that you are the awareness, you are not the thought. You are the awareness disguised as a person. You are not the thought.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And the thoughts that you're thinking are very separate, are separate from your awareness of the thoughts, where is the big Y-O-U resides. The big I am. That's where the real I am resides. Are you following? You know what we're talking about. I know y'all do over here. Y'all are like, yes, yes, yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Eckhart says most people carry within them an accumulation of prior emotional pain, what he calls the pain body. It can be unresolved stress, negativity, or fear that impacts a sense of well-being and is a source of suffering for many. Eckhart explains, once we recognize the pain body for what it is, we are held hostage no more. Awareness is the first step toward freedom.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
our discomfort becomes so great, we take action to alleviate it. Eckhart explains, the pain body may seem like a huge obstacle. However, it also can be a powerful catalyst to awaken. Thanks for listening. We'll be right back with more of my conversation with Eckhart Tolle. Welcome back to more of my conversation with spiritual thought leader, Eckhart Tolle.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Let's get to somebody on this side, the difference between your thoughts and the awareness of the thoughts. Who wants to speak to that on this side?
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
I hear exactly what you're saying, but that would color your whole life. Because it's the way your parents would treat you. They're talking about the loss that they had. And that would color the way you were raised and the way you were born and the way you saw yourself.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And this just happens to be, I think, the 20th edition of it. And I will also say this. Over the years, I have met multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple spiritual people. Teachers, spiritual thinkers, voices of our time. And I will have to say no person have I met that had absolutely no ego other than this man. This man is a walking example of walking the walk. Eckhart Tolle, welcome. Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And then to reach a point, first of all, I want to cry because we celebrate the fact that you reached the point that you realize that your being here is because you matter and not because you were here to replace somebody else.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
The ego loves to think... I'm better than them.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Yeah, yeah. We had so much more to talk about. We're going to continue with another episode. So I hope you'll join me for part two with Eckhart Tolle and A New Earth. Thank you, Eckhart Tolle. Thank you for the gift that is A New Earth. Thank you to our extraordinary partner, Starbucks, for supporting us here.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
I hope this episode actually inspires you to read A New Earth and talk about it with a friend, maybe over a cup of Starbucks. And thank you for listening and watching. We hope you all join our community and become a part of all of our conversations on The Oprah Podcast. Subscribe to the show on YouTube and follow us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen, everybody. a new Earth.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Thank you. And so... I read it back in 2007. 2008, we did a 10-part series on every chapter. And at the time, we were just beginning to Skype. Can you all remember those days? We were just beginning to Skype. So the very first sessions, every time we were together, Eckhart and I would go, can you believe we're seeing people? I can see you. Can you see me?
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And now it sounds like, you know, that was ancient times. Ancient times. So let's start with a basic A New Earth 101. For those watching and listening who've not read the book yet, how do you explain the core message of A New Earth?
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
We're going to have a great show, you and I. Here comes the man, y'all. The man. Mr. Tole.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
So it's about we are here to evolve more consciously as conscious beings. And the purpose is to work towards diminishing that thing we call the ego. One of Eckhart's core teachings is that we are not our thoughts. I know that's a challenging concept. Eckhart says the compulsive thinking that plagues most people is a form of addiction, one of the most pervasive on the planet. It fuels our ego.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
We joined forces with Starbucks to bring three of what I think are some of the best things in life, books, coffee and conversation together. all together in one place. And Starbucks paired this month's book club selection with a strong cortado. And so enjoy yours. Okay. Let's have a toast to you. Toast to you. Thank you. I also really appreciate the idea of meeting a friend for coffee with a book.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Thinking separates us from our true self, or the transcendent, as Eckhart called it. He says the only way to reach this deeper dimension is through the practice of presence. Now I will tell you a really funny story. When I first had this conversation with Eckhart, I remember saying to you, I really think I have my ego pretty much under control.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
OK, so the very next day I had a doctor's appointment to get a mammogram. And normally, because I am a known person, I am brought around the back of the doctor's office and I'm taken in the back and I don't have to wait in a line and I don't have to sit down. And so on this particular day, I am brought to the front and everybody's sitting there in the waiting room.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And I think, oh, well, this is a nice experience. Okay. So I thought, well, let me just enjoy the moment, the present moment. So I start talking to people. Oh, what are you reading? So the appointment was at 11. And about 11.20, I remember getting up and calling my assistant, Libby. And I said, Libby. what is going on here? I am at the doctor's office to get the mammogram. What is going on?
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And she says, oh, don't worry. What they're going to do, they're going to take you in the back, and then they're going to put like an apron on you, and then you're going to have to take off your top.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And then right in the middle of that went, I think that's my ego. LAUGHTER I think it's my ego. It's my ego that felt like, why am I waiting when I've never had to wait? And it was shown to me the exact next day after I told you how it was all in control.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
In the middle of me saying, I know what a mammogram is! LAUGHTER I thought, oh, there she is. There's the ego. That's the thing that you thought you had under control.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Because the awareness that that is what is happening is what helps you diminish that ego.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Awareness is really who you are because you say in the very beginning of your book, Stillness Speaks, which if you just want to introduce someone to these principles, I think Stillness Speaks is a wonderful way to do that because you don't have to read it all at one time. They're like little paragraphs that bring you into the space of stillness.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And you say on the very first page that it is the awareness of these words on the page and that awareness bringing them into thoughts. You are that awareness disguised as a person.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
That is who you really are. And if you are not operating from that space, which most of us can't do that all the time, you do. I have seen you live your life this way. But there are many times where I have to bring myself back to that.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
Don't you like that idea? Especially if you get to talk about this book. After 109 book club selections, I have never chosen the same book twice. Until now. Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth. Awakening to your life's purpose. As one of the great spiritual teachers of our time.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And I will say that before reading A New Earth, I thought ego meant people who were arrogant or people who were, you know, always trying to boss other people around or it meant that you were somebody who thought you were better than other people. I didn't realize...
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
that every one of us has an ego and it's your role in life to keep that thing in check and to separate and understand your true self from the ego that is consistently trying to rule your life.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And also wanting to be, I remember reading this, I think it was either in A New Earth or Power of Now, that stress is wanting the present moment to be something other than what it is. Yes. And that, you all relate to that, right? And that you're stuck in traffic and you're like stressing about getting to the da-da-da.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
If you just relax, first of all, if you can't move the traffic, then what are you stressing about? And if you just relax into it and accept, get to acceptance of this present moment, it makes everything flow more easily. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And I have found that that principle of being able to be in the present moment, which has now become my greatest gift to myself, is the best offering you can give to yourself and to anybody else. Because it means you accept this moment for what it is. And even if the moment isn't what you want it to be, you can't begin to change it until you get to acceptance.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
You accept the moment and then say, now what do I need to do?
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
You get it? You get the difference? Instead of resisting the moment.
The Oprah Podcast
Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club
And I find a lot of people are in resistance of whatever the moment is right now. That's right. In big ways and little ways in their life. Yes. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. I'm so happy to meet up with you here. Mel Robbins' book, The Let Them Theory, has been flying off the shelves. And now she's here to tackle some of your questions about a topic that I know is on a lot of people's minds, and that is anxiety. Will is a 22-year-old senior studying mathematics at the University of Chicago. Will, hi.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
Mel is back to talk about what feels like the overwhelming emotion of our times, anxiety. I want you to never say I have anxiety, ever.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
Well, I'm curious about the pressure you feel as a young man today in college and the pressure some of your friends might be expressing as, you know, men functioning in the world today.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
And hopefully give you the tools to calm some of those runaway thoughts.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
Do you feel comfortable talking about it with your friends?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
Like what you just shared here with us so openly. Have you shared that with your friends, your male friends?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
Well, thank you. Thank you for being so open with us today. Thanks. Of course. Thanks and good luck in school.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
I think that's another powerful way of looking at it, that withholding it from yourself is actually causing self-harm, is another form of self-harm. Yes. Good to be reminded of that. You're listening to my conversation with Mel Robbins on the Oprah podcast. When we come back, what you can learn from one of the biggest mistakes Mel made as a mother. Welcome back to the Oprah podcast.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
As Mel says, how to stay connected to your capability.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
I am so glad you're sharing your valuable time with us here today. And Mel Robbins is here with some hard-earned advice for a mom who struggles with a lifelong legacy of anxiety. Stephanie, hi. I know you work with children with special needs and you're in Louisiana. I am. Yeah. And you say anxiety is your superpower. That's what the producer told me. Tell me why.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
So many of you may already know Mel's personal story, but in case anybody listening or watching doesn't know, you struggled with anxiety in college. Oh my gosh, yes. And law school.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
OK, so when she said Stephanie was saying earlier, should she tell her about how much she tell her about her story?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
And instead of running from things... Avoidance or doing what you did, trying to fix it. You don't want to be the bad mom. She wants to sleep in the same room with you, so it's like, come on, because otherwise you feel bad saying, go back to your bed.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
I think what's been shared here will help you begin to develop the tools to do better. Yes. That is what my hope is for you. Thank you so much, Stephanie. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Thank you. We're going to take a quick break and when we come back.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
Mel shares the single thing you can do today to reduce your own anxiety, plus how Mel went from $800,000 in debt to best-selling author and podcasting superstar.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
Um, I would feel maybe a little tension. I would feel a little sense of anxiousness, like gotta get it done, gotta get it done.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
Welcome back and thank you again for listening. Coming up, Mel's number one recommendation for anyone looking to add stillness to their lives and quiet your anxious mind. Can we talk for a moment about how we began to process the barrage of negative news and everything that shows up on our phones? I think it's really overwhelming to a lot of people and creating anxiety for people.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
I know I've just shut it down. How do we start doing this for ourselves? Like, is there a certain amount of time every day we should put the phone down?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
And right now... I'm going to hear it from Gail eventually. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
The headlines are baited to get you to go to read the whole story. Correct. And you become so distracted.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
This is how the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 theory came about. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
Was this before or after the TED Talk where you had a panic attack?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
Well, thank you for being Mel Robbins, who's turning so many other lives around. Thank you for your book, Let Them. And I thank you, Leah and Will and Stephanie, for being vulnerable and sharing with us. You all had great questions for Mel. So Mel's phenomenal book, bestseller it is. We knew it would be. The Let Them Theory is available now wherever you buy your books.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
And of course, she's the host of the hugely popular... So popular, Mel Robbins podcast. Thanks again, Mel. I always love talking to you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
Thank you. You can subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
And your power. Correct. That's right. You're not giving your power away again. Correct. Correct. So our listeners knew that you were going to be here and they reached out to us with questions for you about their anxiety. So Leah. Hi. Leah. Hi. Hi. As a business consultant from Maryland. And how has anxiety impacted you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
Did you hear what did you were you able to hear what were you listening to Mel when she was talking about up here and not here?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
Hi, everybody. Thanks for joining me on the Oprah podcast. I'm back with Mel Robbins. Oprah Winfrey. And we're talking about something that I know impacts so many of you, millions actually, and some people very close to me as well, anxiety.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
That's right. And the only moment you're ever living is this one right here now. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
Her latest book, The Let Them Theory, spent 15 weeks on top of the New York Times bestseller list and is being translated into 51 languages. Mel B dropped in jams and I'm like... Her podcast is followed by millions and often lands in the number one spot. When I started my own podcast, Mel Robbins was one of the first people I called. You're never stuck. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever stuck.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
So instead of saying, oh gosh, I'm so nervous, I'm so nervous, I'm so nervous, I'm really excited. Correct. Yeah. Leah, doesn't that make sense?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
I am safe. I am loved. I'm capable. I am loved. I just think that's powerful. And I know you're going to take that away as a wonderful gem here today. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
Awesome. Thanks, Leah. And you don't lose your edge with that. No. You will not lose your edge.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
You gain it. You gain it. Thanks, Leah. Thank you so much for joining me on The Oprah Podcast. We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, more life-changing anxiety strategies from the incomparable Mel Robbins.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Mel Robbins on How to Calm Anxiety
How Mel's rock-bottom moment became one of her greatest gifts.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Hi, I am so glad that you all are here with me. Welcome to the Oprah Podcast. They are as controversial as they are fascinating, and I know many of you are really curious as I am. So let's hop right into this question. Can psychedelic drugs like psilocybin, also known as magic mushrooms, MDMA, also known as ecstasy, and even LSD, can they heal?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
And you told my team about this guy named Bob Parsons, who is a Vietnam veteran. and a business mogul who founded the internet tech company GoDaddy. Y'all remember GoDaddy? Bob is Zooming in. Bob, welcome to the Oprah podcast.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Oh, my goodness. Well, I don't have a beer, but hello, Bob.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Well, thank you, because I'm so interested in knowing what was your PTSD like for you before you had a psychedelic experience? Tell us how you were tormented by it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Before we begin, I just want to say this. This conversation is not intended to offer medical advice. Psychedelics remain illegal in most states. So I urge you to consult your own health care professional before considering any kind of treatment. So I read your book back in 2018, How to Change Your Mind. And when it was first published, it was really, I would have to say, eye-opening.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
And I just want to say this was at a time when nobody was talking about this. Nobody was saying, oh, you know, you're probably suffering from depression or PTSD. You just had to figure it out yourself. And your family and everybody around you is like, what has happened to this guy?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Could you feel that there was something wrong with you, Bob? Could you feel that whatever this is, it's not normal or not right? Absolutely. Had you tried other therapy before?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
From these four experiences. So what happened during the experience? Did you see yourself differently? Did you experience the trauma? Did you relive the experience? What actually happened? Can you tell us?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
So, Bob, can I ask you this? One of the things Michael shared with us is that in one of his experiences, he came away with this feeling that love is everything. Did it open you up to experience love, loving, being loved differently?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
So you and your wife, Renee, now have donated millions, I understand, to research, even funding a center on psychedelic healing at Mount Sinai in New York. What are you hoping for?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
I was surprised that you, Michael Pollan, who had done all of these wonderful books about food and the omnivore's dilemma and what we should be eating, had now stepped into another realm of the plant world.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
So, Bob, can I ask you, do you continue to try various forms of psychedelics or other drugs? Or was that experience that four days enough for you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Yeah. That's why you and Renee have created the center.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Thank you, Bob, for joining us and sharing that story. And maybe one day we'll have that beer.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
A shot and a beer. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you, Bob. The best to you and Renee. The brilliant Michael Pollan is here with me on the Oprah Podcast, and we're about to meet a father and daughter who've used psychedelics for different reasons to help unlock childhood trauma and to help ease symptoms of OCD.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
And I found it eye-opening and challenging for me because I'll admit that I have had and continue to have preconceived notions and judgments around psychedelics. And at the time, I didn't think our culture or I, for that matter, was ready for this conversation. I thought, whoa, that's really... This is really bold of Michael to do this in 2018, which at the time it was.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
You may be hearing a lot these days about the use of psychedelics to help heal mental trauma. And that's why I thought this would be a very interesting conversation for the Oprah podcast. We heard from viewers and listeners who have questions for bestselling author Michael Pollan, who's with us today, who wrote one of the definitive books on this topic. Let's meet Dave and his daughter, Reagan.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
They are Zooming in from Utah. Dave, you say psychedelics help you unlock childhood trauma and even is giving you a greater sense of purpose. Tell us, how is that so? That is so interesting.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
So can I ask you this? Can I ask you this? Because I don't know anybody who or maybe I do know somebody who's done it, but I've never asked this question. Are you you're able to ask questions and people can ask you questions while you're doing it. You're conscious enough to be able to do that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
You can hear what other people are saying. So I always thought it was like you're off into your own world and you're having your trip and then you're not a part of whatever this world is.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
That the setting and the... So important. Setting is so important.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Reagan, you're nodding. Did you have a similar experience? I heard you tried just for fun and then it turned out to be more than that.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
But now I've noticed, and I think... You are the reason for part of this shift. I've seen, first of all, more articles about it, more stories about it, more people who have engaged with the experience of psychedelics. And I think something is happening in the culture. Would you agree?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
What was the substance? Was it? It was mushrooms.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Any questions you have for Michael? Here's your chance. Absolutely.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
That's a light bulb moment right there.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
It's the same thing.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
All stemming from the same thing.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Dave, did you have a question?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
And I think the word spiritual always hangs people up too. I mean, I got so much criticism back in the 80s and 90s and early aughts by just using the word spirit on broadcast television. I think the word consciousness is a better word. I think consciousness, the altering- Sounds more scientific. Yeah, sounds more scientific. And that is actually what is happening in the spiritual experience.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
And, you know, in one way- Would you say you were part of that change though? Because when you wrote this book, you know- Yeah, it was pretty fringe.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
You're elevating, enhancing, opening your consciousness to experience life and yourself differently. That's what I think.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
That's why I don't think we're here yet. We're certainly not here yet. Because like everything, once people start using it, it's just like the, you know, anti-obesity drugs. Then people create their own, you know, pharmacies for making the anti-obesity drugs. And people are doing it, you know, on the side. And it's not... you know, authorized and stuff.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
And I think it's dangerous for people to have these kind of explorations without a guide.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
You need somebody who knows what they're doing to help you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Especially if you're a person who has demons. Yeah. And you're taking it because you know you have demons.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
That is my favorite phrase on earth. I want to cry right now because anytime there is a challenge in my life, that is the first question that I ask. What are you here to teach me? What is this for? Or if I'm in the middle of a bad dream, I'll say, okay, what are you here to teach me?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Yeah. It's not even just curiosity. It's like, I want to know what it is so I can get out of it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Well, thank you all. You all sharing here today has really been informative for all of us. Thank you so much. Yeah, wonderful to meet you. Wonderful to meet you, Dave and Reagan. Thank you. Good luck. So you hear a lot about microdosing. If the Oprah show was still on, we'd be doing shows, I think, on microdosing moms and parents. There are a lot of them.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Microdosing moms and parents in the suburbs having shroom parties. What is your take on that? What is that, microdosing?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
How to Change Your Mind is such a perfect title, too.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
I love that. It's what it's about. What the new science of psychedelics teaches us about consciousness, dying, addiction, depression, and transcendence. I thought, well, if it does all that, I'm gonna read this book.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Natalie's joining us from California. Natalie, I hear you turn to psychedelics to cope with grief. How did that go for you? How did that work out for you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Oh, thank you for that, Natalie. Thank you. Thank you. So I hear you. What's your question?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
I think one of the things that Michael emphasizes in the book is that the ego and who you believe yourself to be are not identical. They're not. And that separation, that is the biggest thing that happens with most people, I think.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
And so your question was about what is the advice for going deeper in the journey? Is that the question?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Yeah, thank you, Natalie. Thank you. And thanks to your kids who squealed when they heard you talking to Michael. I have not heard that before. Give them my best. Thank you. One of my favorite questions to ask on this podcast is coming up. We're going to talk to Michael Pollan about what it means for him to live a well-lived life. He always makes you see things in a new way.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
You'll want to hear his answer next.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Was this Roland Griffith's article? Yes, Roland Griffith, who I interviewed in his last dying days.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Thank you for listening to us today to The Oprah Podcast. Welcome back to our conversation on psychedelics with Michael Pollan. In the book, you write that you had, you quote, you say, some kind of spiritual experience. Do you think that there... Obviously, I'm just asking the question, but I already know the answer.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
There is a difference between a religious spiritual experience and one induced by a drug's chemical impact on the brain. And that's the first question. And does the spiritual experience depend upon what your religious belief is or is not?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
I was going to say, how could you be that when you're so connected to plants?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
mental trauma, or even help people reach a transcendent, transformational spiritual experience. Joining me, the man who's an expert on all of this, Michael Pollan. Great to see you again, Michael. Great to see you too, Oprah. Once again, Michael Pollan is at the forefront of a revelatory national conversation.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
So darn true.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
And I think we have to explain what ego is because until 2008, I always thought that ego was, you know, you were being arrogant or you were, you know, overly self-assured. Now I know it's that voice in the head that is constantly going, we all have it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
It's constantly, it's a, you know, a gajillion thoughts a day judging and it's measuring and it's, yeah, it's that part of you that is separate from the real you. And it's important to us.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Do you think it's possible that we can reach these same levels of revelations and consciousness and understandings about our connection to the universe, to ourselves and to each other without psychedelics? Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
And he was so calm about the experience of dying, yes. And so you read Roland Griffith's article.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
And if you've got anxiety, you can't even sit still long enough to do it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
You know, I'm really grateful to be able to talk to you today because, first of all, you're so smart. And you've written so many books about what our society is collectively about.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
wrestling with and I'm wondering actually I was at a seminar this summer and the head of Stanford was talking about a class that they were going to start there and the class was going to be called what does it mean to have a well lived life and I thought wow I would love to teach that class I'd love to teach that class and be a part of that class and so I love that as a question what do you when you
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
With all the things that you now know as you sit here about to enter a new decade, come on in, the water's fine. It's going to be all right. What to you defines a well-lived life?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
And for some people, it seems to be the tool that helps you open the door.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
You see your parents as the trees. Yeah. Listen, you wrote that so vividly. I see your parents as the trees, okay? Well, thank you. Michael's book, How to Change Your Mind, as well as all of his other thought-provoking books are available wherever you buy your books. So thank you to all of our guests for Zooming in here with us with your own fascinating experiences on psychedelics.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
The fact that Bob lived for 49 years. And I love that line, Bob, when you said, and I finally came home. I finally came home. I thank you all for listening. And it's my hope that these conversations help to inform and enhance your life in some way. You know, I've always tried to go through life with a curious open mind. So I thank you all for taking the time to spend your time with us here today.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
He's a renowned researcher of psychedelics at Johns Hopkins.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
And be sure if you can to subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube. That is, if you don't want to miss an episode. And follow us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Go well. Bye for now. How to change your mind. You can subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
because he wrote this paper on the mystical and spiritual experience of it all, right?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
So some people are drawn, we know, to psychedelics because they are suffering from mental illness or mental trauma, not mental illness, mental trauma. Because I think if you're suffering from mental illness, a lot of people shouldn't take it if you are.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
So some are spiritual seekers, Some are suffering from mental traumas and others are just looking for this experience or seem to be doing it for fun.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
But in every single instance, isn't it about changing consciousness?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
So if you're using it for therapy, as a lot of people now are.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
It's a guided experience.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
So were you reluctant to take, I mean, you were, you know, pretty straight, straightforward guy. I was terrified. Were you reluctant to take them yourself?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
I would be afraid of having a psychotic break. Yeah. I would be afraid of losing my mind. I was. And not getting it back.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
You were. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Okay, so tell us about the time you tell about experiencing your parents in the trees.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
I said, oh, Michael is really tripping. But the realization that you had seemed pretty solid. And I am, Michael, I mean, it made me so curious because I'm surrounded by trees. I love trees. I think I have some, something is going on with me and trees. I don't know what it is. So your experience, tell everybody what that was.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
What does it even look like?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
But the thing about psychedelics- Do you feel it or experience it in a way that you didn't know before?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Psychedelics, once demonized as a dangerous counterculture threat, are being reexamined as a possible tool for treatment for anxiety, depression, addiction, PTSD, and for spiritual transcendence.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
And does that conviction stay with you after the experience?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
It feels like a knowing. Exactly.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Yeah. Tell us about the... When I'm specifically asking about the parents, the father was the tree and the mother was the tree and they're both... Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
I come in the gate and I say hello to all the trees. I go, I'm back, tell everybody I'm home.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
I was so struck by that because I think I'm not conscious enough to know, but I know that there is a oneness. There's a connection with all of nature. I just don't know what it is yet. So the plants aren't speaking to me, but I know that there is life there. I know that there is something going on that is deeper than what we can see.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
And it's what most people think they are.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
You're the space between the voice and the thoughts. And when you can separate that, which I can do in meditation and there's an awareness of- It's very similar in meditation.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
But it sounds like psychedelics is a higher level of the deepest of the meditations.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Michael's best known for his blockbuster books about food, like The Omnivore's Dilemma and Cooked. But his groundbreaking 2018 work, How to Change Your Mind, created an opening for a new way to think about psychedelics.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Yeah. Eckhart Tolle talks about that in A New Earth a lot. I'm with bestselling author Michael Pollan, and we're about to hear from all kinds of people who are using psychedelics to heal from mental trauma, including a war veteran who suffered for decades from PTSD.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. I am here with bestselling author Michael Pollan, who is at the forefront of research and reporting on the benefits and concerns people have about taking psychedelics. A reminder, this conversation is not intended in any way to be medical advice. You will want to and must talk to your own health care provider if you're interested in taking psychedelics.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Harvard Professor Share How Psychedelics Are Actually Healing
So, you know, a lot of the new research, y'all, on psychedelics started with treating veterans who were suffering from chronic PTSD. This is where the real breakthroughs are, I think. And for decades, it seemed that no treatment worked. And then there were a lot of practitioners who started seeing real relief for patients using psychedelics.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Hey there, and thanks to you for joining me here on the podcast and for watching on YouTube. Today I'm welcoming Dr. Bruce Perry. I've known Dr. Bruce Perry, a world-renowned child and adolescent psychiatrist and neuroscientist. I've known him now for 30 years and more. I invited him on The Oprah Show more times than I can count.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
I love what you said about it's not a switch you're going to turn on. If I may share this, the best definition I ever heard of forgiveness is I can't remember who did it so many years ago on the show, was giving up the hope that the past could be any different. So giving up the hope that the past could be any different is a decision you have to make.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
You have to decide that I now accept that what happened happened as it happened. And I'm going to give up hoping that my parents were, could have been, should have been anything other than what they were. And I am now willing to move forward. It doesn't mean that you excuse it. You condone it. But you accept that you are not going to continually hope that it could have been different.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Because hoping that it could have been different leaves you in the space where you're going to always be stuck and you never get to move forward. You are as resilient. You are as strong. You are as caring for others. You have the compassion that you have because of all the things that you did not get from them before. that you had to find a way to make okay for yourself.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
So give up the hope for them. And also, what Bruce said, also understanding what happened to them. You know, watching you makes me want to cry, but I remember... Having to, I was being asked to come to speak about my mother at a church and she was, you know, a very, not religious. It was important for her to be seen as religious in the community.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
And I had become Oprah Winfrey and everybody knew she was my mother. And I'd been asked to come to church to give all these accolades about my mother. And I couldn't think of one thing. I was listening to other people tell stories of their mother. This girl told a story of how her mother would make lunch, especially in the rain.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
She would pack it in a special lunchbox and she would put their galoshes with those little yellow boots at the front door. And then she'd be home to take them off. And I was like, oh my God, I don't have one memory. I don't have one single thing. And so... When it came time for me to speak, I thought, well, what do I actually have to be grateful for? She didn't abort me.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
You said, you know, all these schools where they have the kids, and those kids get dismissed, and they get suspended from school, and the teachers label them as bad, and they say, this is a bad kid, this is a bad kid. What they really should be saying not is what's wrong with this kid, but what happened to this child. Yeah. That was a... That was one of the biggest moments for me.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
She did the best that she knew. The best that she knew was not enough to feed what I needed, was not enough to make me feel whole, was not enough to make me feel valued or seen or important to her. It was not. But it was the best that she could do, and I gave up the hope that it could have been anything other than what she had. And that's where you have to get to.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Very powerful. Thank you. Thank you, Annie. Thank you for reading the book. And I'm so glad to know that it was meaningful for you.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Thank you both. Thank you. Thank you. Alexis is joining us from Vermont. Hi, Alexis. I heard you read the book and that it was a validation for you.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
So I heard while reading the book, you were better able to understand a lot of your triggers, right? How did that show up for you?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
One of the things I talked about in this book, I think, yeah, I think I talked about it in this book is that I came to the realization too, because I too was a major people pleaser. And I think people who suffer from trauma, particularly if there's been physical abuse in your life,
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Uh, what I realize is, is that every confrontation, even as an adult running a company, I suddenly realized that, oh, I think every confrontation, I'm going to get a whipping. I think there's a whipping at the end of it. I think somebody's, you know, it's my grandmother's going to come in and she's going to take that switch and I'm going to get a whip in. I'm going to get chastised.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
It changed the way I run my school. It has changed the results of what's happened at my school. It changed the way I see people, the way I see myself, the way I operate in the world in business. And you said that when a person or child is actually behaving in a certain way, that that's the question, not what's wrong with you. but more important, what's happened to. How did you know this?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
I'm going to get punished. Yeah. for speaking up or saying whatever's important to me. If I don't do the thing that pleases the other person, I'm going to get punished. That was the big realization for me. I think one of the things that you shared here that's so important that I just want to reemphasize
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
for people who are, for those of you who are watching or listening to us, is that you said, I realized it wasn't my fault. And I think that is the thing that what happened to you has done for so many people. It's freed them to, first of all, understand it's actually the science of my brain and the circumstances that I was in, and it wasn't my fault.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Well, that's why that other book that's also very popular, Your Body Keeps the Score, you're saying that your body doesn't lose anything.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
So if you're under constant stress and anxiety, that is being internalized in your body, in your health in a way that you don't see now but will be manifested later. Absolutely. Show up.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
And this is a thing that I have learned for myself, Alexis, to share with you. You don't have to worry about trusting other people if you have done the work to trust yourself. Yeah. So you can trust that if somebody isn't providing you with...
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
what you need or that the moment a level of toxicity or them shaming or judging or in any way being disrespectful to you in any way shows up, you trust yourself enough to get yourself out of that.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
I'll get it done. So you don't go spilling your whole life to somebody and telling. Exactly. You don't open your heart to people that you don't know that they are worthy. Exactly. Of holding the heart space for you. Exactly. And that's the work you're doing on yourself. That's not about them. That's about you.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Absolutely. You can get there. You got that. Thank you, Alexis. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. So Dr. Perry told us about the United States District Judge Esther Salas, who is now joining us from her chambers. Hello. These are your chambers? In New Jersey, nearly five years ago. I remember reading that story. That was a horrible story that you endured the most unimaginable.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Wow. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Thank you. I'm so sorry. That is a devastating loss. And we all thank you for sharing Daniel's story with us. So tell us how you then discovered the book and how this book impacted you.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Oh, I need I need that rhythm. I heard that the book also, Judge Salas, shifted the way you see the men and women who come into your courtroom. Tell us about that.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Explain dysregulation and regulation that the judge is talking about.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
And one of the things that's really interesting about that... And the fact that your boss is an asshole means that they have a story. Exactly. Of some kind of... Trauma or being rejected. Being minimized.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Because the only people that make people feel like they are minimal are people who feel minimal themselves. Exactly. You absolutely can't do it if you're a whole person.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Thank you. ���acacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacTV此acacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacac cleeniaceni�������������������������������������������������������������������������eniket Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Yeah, they are the most interesting kid in the class. And if you are a teacher or an educator who's listening or watching us right now, or you are involved in the criminal justice system, or you are in any way having to deal with people who come from dysfunctional backgrounds, this book is absolutely essential.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
I know one of the things that has been the most rewarding for me, I was working with women at the California Women's Institute, and they read the book as a book club assignment. And then wrote me letters that they all put in a book. And one of the most rewarding things was to understand that for so many women who've been incarcerated for years, they had never understood.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Thank you. Thank you. My hope is that this conversation can help you see a new path to healing. Up next, Dr. Bruce Perry on how to break self-destructive patterns. That's next. Thank you for your company today. My hope is this episode of the Oprah Podcast can help you learn how to start to heal from the trauma of your past. I'm back with Dr. Bruce Perry.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Dr. Perry, once we become aware of our trauma and how that trauma is showing up in our lives, how do we... break the self-destructive patterns. I think this book, may I say, helps a lot because you understand, oh, that's why he does that, she does that, I do that. That's why. Helps you recognize it. But now that you recognize it, what do you do?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
They actually said to me all this time, I thought I was just a bad person. I thought I had a demon. I never asked the question again. What happened to me? I was always asking what was wrong with me. So I think the fact that we did this book together has really, you know, not just sold a million copies, but has affected a million lives.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
And it doesn't have to come from the person that you think it was supposed to come from. Absolutely. Yeah. It could be anybody who actually fully sees you. Right. And values you as a human being. Right. Yeah. And it can, and. For me, that was teachers. That's why teachers, I'm telling you, every teacher in the country.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
It shook her when I was a little girl. It came to my church and her husband was running for governor. And she turned to me and I never thought of myself as an attractive kid, you know. And she just said to me, you are as pretty as a speckled pup. That moment stuck with me forever and ever and ever.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
And so, I mean, just I think what you're mentioning is being able to be fully present, to be there and see a person for who they are. And, you know, Dr. Bruce Perry, thank you for sharing your wisdom. Again, thank you for writing this book. 2020, we did this book. I mean, thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
And to all of our guests, to Alexis and to Annie and to Dave and to Judge Salas for sharing that story about your beautiful Daniel. to our guests who read the book and shared their experiences and questions. What Happened to You is available wherever books are sold.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
And my hope is that it does exactly what Alexis says, that you read the book and whatever has happened to you, you realize it's not your fault. Number one, it's not your fault and you're not alone. And it serves as a light in your life and a guide, a reminder that healing is possible. And
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Subscribe to The Oprah Podcast if you don't want to miss an episode because we're talking about good things every week here. Go well. You can subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
I also asked Dr. Perry to implement his work called The Neurosequential Model of Therapeutics to help my girls' school in South Africa become a trauma-informed school.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
One of the most important takeaways that I got from the book, depending on what age you are when you experience the trauma, you handle it differently and it manifests in your brain differently. Exactly.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
But the universal principle... Or the long-term effect on a five-year-old is going to be very different than the long-term effect on a nine-year-old.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
It's actually the opposite. Exactly. One of the biggest, biggest, biggest takeaways for me, you all, when I was working with Dr. Bruce Perry on this book is learning. And I'd heard it for years. You'd been on my show. I'd heard the information. I just hadn't received it. And I heard it differently after building a school and having a lot of kids who had come there traumatized.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
But to hear from you that from age zero to two years old, zero to two years old, is the time when the most damage can take place to the developing of the brain.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
So what I learned from you and this book, what happened to you, if you are raised in an environment where your needs do not get met at a very early, early age, zero to two, the synapses in your brain do not form the way other people's do, and you end up with long-term...
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Dr. Perry has written half a dozen books, including one he co-authored with me called What Happened to You? Conversations on Trauma, Resilience, and Healing. I'm proud to say it's a number one New York Times bestseller.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
That's why it's so important for every human being to understand what happened to you. Because what happened to you when you were little, even before you were able to process it, is what dictates Your behavior and your decisions, your choices, the way your brain operates in later life. And that is true for every person.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
That's why that's the most important question you can ask, particularly when things are not going the way that you want. It's not, what's wrong with him? It's, I wonder what happened to him. Exactly.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
And this is what everybody needs to know, particularly about younger, younger children, and that's why the zero to two years old is so important, is that even though those children don't understand language, they understand energy and vibration. Absolutely. They are responding to tone, intonation, the noise around them. That's why sometimes you go to touch a baby and they're like, ah! Ah!
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
And the reason why it is so crucial, zero to two, zero to six, those early years, is because that's when we have the greatest growth in our learning ability, right?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
And so I can't emphasize enough, if you didn't get what you needed, and it doesn't mean that you were not in a loving environment because I've over the years interviewed multiple people from the same family, somebody felt that, you know, that's why you end up arguing with your sisters and brothers about what went on because they're saying, well, mom and dad were this.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
And you go, but that wasn't my experience. And if you didn't get what you needed, that's all that matters. Absolutely. That's all that matters. Absolutely. So I think a lot of people may think, well, it's too late for me. I'll live with this pain for the rest of my life. What do you want people to hear and understand about healing from their own trauma and what resilience actually means?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Dr. Perry and I are talking with viewers and listeners about our book.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
This is what I want people to know because so many people feel... as I did, that you didn't get what you needed from a particular parent or from your loved ones who were supposed to love you. You didn't get loved the way you needed to be loved. But I had asked you earlier in one of these conversations, I don't know why I'm not stone crazy, and you said,
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
So that could be a teacher, that could be a counselor, that could be somebody in Sunday school.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
I would say reading it opened up a new way of healing from their trauma. Your work, this book, has had such a profound impact on my life personally and professionally, so thank you. It's a simple question that resonates profoundly for so many of us. What happened to you? I have to say, that question changed everything.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
I thank you for listening to the Oprah Podcast. When we come back, Dr. Perry has advice on forgiveness and how to move forward from the traumas of our past. You don't want to miss that. So stay with us. I'm talking with world-renowned trauma expert, Dr. Bruce Perry. We're taking questions from viewers and listeners who read our book, What Happened to You?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
So I'm really, really so moved today because we heard from a lot of you who have read the book and some of you are joining this conversation. Annie, hi there. You're Zooming in from Minnesota. Oh, lovely home. Very nice.
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
Thanks for having me. Can you share how you were impacted by what happened to you in your childhood?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
And I heard that after reading the book, you see yourself differently. I love to hear that. And I know Bruce does too. So how so? What happened?
The Oprah Podcast
Dr. Bruce Perry
I think it was 2018, I was interviewing Bruce Perry for an episode of 60 Minutes on CBS. Yeah, you were there even, Keith, right? Keith, my favorite DP I've had for years. We were talking about children, and you made a comment.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
This episode of the Oprah Podcast is presented by Lilly. Well, hey there. Glad you're here with me on the Oprah Podcast. My guest today is the former Prime Minister of New Zealand, the Right Honourable Dame Jacinda Ardern. And when she was only 37 years old, she made history as the youngest female head of state in the entire world. That means on the planet Earth.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
I was filming a movie called Wrinkle in Time and we shot it in New Zealand and I wanted to go just because it was being filmed in New Zealand. And I have never experienced a world like that. It's like you're driving along and you turn a corner and you're like... Oh my gosh. Everything is breathtaking.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Okay, so in a different kind of power, you let us in to your... Internal monologue. Yes, into your internal monologue. Can you take us back to the eve of winning the election? And you take that pregnancy test and that little pink line shows up. Can you take us back to that extraordinary moment? What was going on?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
And you had said, and you had done interviews saying, clearly, no, I'm not the one who's running. Absolutely not. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Just really beautiful, wonderful people. And what do you love most about being from New Zealand? The people.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
And just when it was going to be the most challenging. Yeah. Yes. I love the way the universe set you up that way.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Well, reading this part of the book, you're flying all over the place. I mean, just imagine going to meetings with your breast pumps. You're in the back of the car with your breast pumps tucked under your blouse. I mean, it's like you were superwoman pumping and speaking and having meetings and making decisions. Yeah. At the time...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
We shouldn't set... Certainly you did it, but you don't want to set up the expectation that... Where somebody can run around with their pump in the back of the car. Absolutely. Yes. We should have an expectation that there's a village.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
And not to mention, not just running around, you know, with the pump in the back of the car, breastfeeding, doing all the things that are required of a world leader. Having other people, the naysayers, question whether you should even have the right to be a mother and also be a war leader.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
I have so much to talk about with former Prime Minister of New Zealand, Jacinda Ardern. Stay with us. That's all coming up next.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Welcome back, listener. I am so grateful that you're here for this deeply personal conversation with Jacinda Ardern, who's looking back at her time as Prime Minister of New Zealand. You know, I have always admired the way she led her country with courage and kindness. And I'm honored to finally sit down with her.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
She's talking about her new book, A Different Kind of Power, and a new documentary called Prime Minister. And then you made history in, I think it was 2018, when you brought Neve to the United Nations in New York. It was the first time in history a baby was brought to the floor of the UN General Assembly and the photos were seen all over the world.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
And you came out of that experience with a powerful message for women. Yes. First of all, that that was a different kind of power to be able to bring your baby to the United Nations.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
And everybody knows it. Everybody knows it. I did sense when I was there that everybody knows that it is.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
So when you came out of that, your message was both spoken and unspoken.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
And the essence of that message was what?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
That's so powerful. That's so correct. Yes, you can do it all, but don't expect to do it alone. Yeah, because I didn't. That is so clarifying.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Well, and that you have more sheep than people, too.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
It's so interesting because in the book and in the documentary, we see how your now husband, Clark, really takes on the role of super dad and steps in. And there's a moment when people are protesting outside and like, where is he and what's happened to him? And you're like... He's raising our child. Yeah. But what an amazing example he was for setting the stage for the world to see.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
I love the way in A Different Kind of Power, you talk about how Everything in your life prepares you for stepping into this role, what you've done in the past, and you have your own agenda for things you want to accomplish while you're in office. Child poverty, because it's always been important to you, and mental health issues, and all the things you go in. And then...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
there is the Christchurch mass shooting.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
So all the things you want to accomplish and you are about the business of doing that, nothing prepares you for the horrific experience of this mass shooting. So you all recall in 2019, New Zealand experienced the worst mass shooting in its history. Yeah. There were 51 people. Mm-hmm. who were killed at a mosque and Islamic center.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
And your leadership after that tragedy made headlines around the world. I just, in reading about it, what was going on with you at that time. I mean, you don't even know how to think about something like that, how to process.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
But in that moment, everything that had ever happened to you in your life, imposter or not, you leaned into the most powerful space and you made decisions and navigated through that in such a way that showed us all what it means to step into your own power. How were you able to do that?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
I know. That is still on my bucket list. Please come back. Yes. It's a great place to hike. Do you miss it?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
And you immediately said, people who chose to be here, this is their country. Absolutely.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
And you're talking about the fact that a lot of people from the Muslim community wrote to you saying, thank you. We appreciate you standing with us. We appreciate you honoring our loved ones who passed. I mean, you know what I just thought?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Even how you handled the difficulty of, you know, other people's customs because the custom of having to bury your dead immediately and you having to figure out with yourself... And the team, how do we tell this community, you're not going to be able to bury your dead right away because this is now a police investigation.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Well, I just, well, first of all, I, over the years, have loved book titles. I love first lines of book. I love titles. And I think this is such a powerful title, a different kind of power. How did you come to it? And what was the inspiration? It was a real process.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
So you knew immediately to wrap your head?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
uh shot and he thanked new zealand uh for me the muslim community led a response that humbled everyone so a different kind of power meant that you instinctively knew that the thing to do is to go to the people where the people are hurting absolutely and a different kind of power um
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
allowed you to embrace those people, the community, the Muslim community, in a way as though they were your own people, your own family, your own... I mean, it's like watching you and reading about you doing that. It's like you were a part of that community at that time.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
But I have to tell you, I mean, when I was watching that on the news, I was so moved by your...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
authenticity and your sincerity because you know things happen in the world there's a crisis there's a shooting there's a bombing and leaders they show up they do their little drive through and run through and have their speech but you were in it you were in the center of it and i think only by being in it and for me on hindsight you know taking a bit of time to reflect
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
You were in it with people crying on your shoulders, literally, in your bosom, yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
You and your administration reformed New Zealand's gun laws in 10 days. And in reading the book, I now I can see that you were fueled by your passion came from being amongst the community and feeling their loss in such a personal and powerful way. How did you make that happen so quickly?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
But what truly set her apart was her mission to lead with kindness.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Because one of the things you talk about here is when you went and visited people in the hospital, nobody had one gunshot. Nobody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Well, as we were talking, no one had any expectation that you would end up in your administration during your time there serving as prime minister as the worst mass killing ever in the history of New Zealand. Also, nobody expected the pandemic.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
And during the pandemic, some called your COVID policy one of your greatest political legacies, but there were also blistering critics and criticisms for it, and even people marching outside your office and death threats. You talk a lot about it here. We get inside your head. But can you briefly, for our audience, describe... what grappling with that experience was like.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Because in the beginning, we were looking at you all, you only had like six cases in the beginning.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Well, that's just one sentence you're using to describe this, but it was a process. It was a big process. Yes. It moved quickly, but it was a process. How do we stop this? We need to close our borders.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
But I think the issue that you described so beautifully here, and you can describe it beautifully because now you've had time to sit with it. Yes. Very well written, I must say, too.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
But you save people's lives so that if they want to eventually get together, they can.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
When people started to turn on you, though, Jacinda, when people started to turn, listen, I've had people turn on me. I've heard the vitriol from the web. I've had the, you know, the lies, the stories, the conspiracy theories made up. It is so disorienting. It is. It is so. It is. It just, it shakes your foundation because you're like, I don't even recognize who you're talking about.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
You are losing sleep at night. You need sleeping pills in order to get to sleep because you were trying to make the best decision for the masses. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
And then you get accused of, oh, it's just a power play. You're ego tripping. You're taking advantage of other people's lives. You're trying to ruin the economy on purpose.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Do you think too, you were talking about being completely transparent, which is another way of you offering a different kind of power, completely transparent, letting people know, and now this is what is happening. But I think what people weren't prepared for, okay, we locked down, we have isolated ourselves, we shut the borders. Now we're going to open up. We're celebrating this big celebration.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
And after that, oh, now we have to lock ourselves down again because now there's a different variant. I think people just got wary of the now there's a different variant and there's another variant and there's another variant.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Which is so shocking when I read this. You had that thing that I'm still trying to understand, and I certainly am trying to understand why you have imposter syndrome. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Do you wish you were back in it so that you could offer these optimistic and hopeful?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Who do you most admire right now who's doing that? Who's modeling that different kind of power?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Okay. I asked this of Jimmy Carter once. When you have the weight of the entire country on your shoulders... And you did in several instances, the weight of the entire country. And just in general, as prime minister, the weight of the entire country on your shoulders. What is your prayer?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
That was a strength. Isn't that amazing how that works out in your life? It... The thing that was your weakness became your strength. Absolutely. Because you did question whether or not they're going to question, I should be here. I'm going to make sure that I do everything exactly.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
That's a different kind of power to have that humility.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
I love the fact that, or appreciate the fact, that when you were going through your most challenging crises, that you looked to people who, was it Shackelford, who'd been through the Antarctic? Yes. Yes. I love those Antarctic, I mean... Amazing. Stories. Isn't that incredible? Amazing. What he was able to do. And then in the end, he wanted to just save his men.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
And he had the saying that I love. We're talking about Ernest Shackleton, the explorer who led expeditions to the Antarctic, who is a hero of yours and of mine too. And you have a mug with one of his quotes. What does it say?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
You say this about yourself. My whole short life, I had grappled with the idea that I was never quite good enough. Why do you think you felt that way?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
And so... At another time, you all can read that story. It's a great story.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Well, two years ago, I watched along with millions when you stepped to the podium to announce your resignation.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Whoa, what a shock that was. I was so struck, actually, by a few things you said. The thing that got me the most was when you said, I no longer had enough in the tank to lead.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
It's that simple. And that you just knew it was time to step down.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
I understand that feeling because, you know, I had a talk show in the United States for 25 years and it just came to me that I knew it was time to go. But it's so rare to find other people. A talk show is not like running a nation as you were doing. And when did that feeling start to occur to you? Was it that you got worn down by COVID and all the COVID vaccine objectors?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
That was what was so great about it. Yeah, as a trigger. Because it's not like... Like she's stepping down because of COVID or she's stepping down because it's too overwhelming or she's stepping down. There was no moment.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Not just encouraging family. I love the fact that you had a father who was a policeman who cared about people and he believed that to fix crime that you had to understand why the crime was happening, which is highly unusual, I would think, for a lot of police officers.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
That takes a different kind of power. Do you know what it takes to have the level of self-awareness to say, I don't know if I still have it?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
People may run through it, but they keep going anyway because they don't want to give up the perception of power. I mean, look at what's happening in our halls of Congress now. People don't speak up because they don't want to be primary. They don't want to lose what they perceive as the real power in their life.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Wow. And how did you prepare for that? How did you prepare to make the announcement? But once you've made the decision, it's done.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Yeah, it's done. It's about how are you going to tell people.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
I can tell you actually wrote this book.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
What were you afraid of? Their judgment? Their criticism?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
I was thinking this when I was reading. Did you get out of politics because of the politics of the politics?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Tell me, how do you go from the velocity, I think is the word that Michelle Obama used in her book, becoming the velocity of her days? I mean, she says, you know, you don't remember where you've been. You don't remember who you've met many times because you're meeting so many people. Just the velocity of life. Yeah. The day to day. How do you go from that to now? You're taking care of me. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Her first memoir is now available and it's called A Different Kind of Power. And I highly recommend it for anybody who's thinking about leadership in your own life or leadership. been through challenging times or just living and being able to live at the utmost best, even in the crises of your life.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
You're in the house. Yeah. You're making dinner. You're having like a normal life without people standing outside waiting for answers for everything.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Well, I think he did a good job filming the documentary.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Well, you said that at a speech at Harvard in 2023. You said that now is the time that we need to re-humanize one another.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
I think that's what's missing in this discourse that everybody's having with the vitriol and the spewing of the hatred is that people have been so dehumanized.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Since you left office, I know that one of your big passions is a group that you founded called Fellowship for Empathetic Leadership. You call it FIELD. What is that and what is your intention for it?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
When you finished your manuscript and you sent it off to the publisher, was there a sense of Release and also a deeper understanding of what you've been through, having put yourself through the process of defining for yourself and now for the world what a different kind of power looks like.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
And you were a speaker because you were on the debate team.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Well, that's all the universe requires of us. And now I'm so, I really am so delighted and pleased that you... decided to put it into words so that we all get to experience it. And we all get, I think what this book does is gives us an opportunity to look at what a different kind of power looks like within our own lives. And I thank you for that. Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
I have to tell you, I have been an admirer of yours from afar, as I said earlier, and it's so wonderful to be up close and still have that same admiration. Because, you know, people say don't meet your heroes. I'm so glad I met my hero today. Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
I will do that. Thank you, the Right Honorable Dame Jacinda Ardern for being with us today. And A Different Kind of Power is available wherever books are sold. And Jacinda reads the audio book. And as you just heard her say, when she finished, she said, that's the best she could do. Really. Thank you. Thank you. You're one of those women that makes me proud to spell my name W-O-M-A-N. Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You can subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. Thank you to Lily for presenting today's episode. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Well, I do think that there are more, but I also think that you don't become what you want or what you desire. You actually become what you believe. So you lean into the thing that you most believe which if it is being a travel agent, that's what you end up pursuing and not the thing that you would aspire to because you're going to lean to the thing that you most believe is possible.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
I'm bringing it up because you bring it up in the book, obviously. And I'm also bringing it up because I have been such an admirer of yours across the sea all this time. And I just stood in awe of your leadership today.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Now I know what was going on behind the scenes, but I just stood in awe of your ability to stand in such grace and such power that seemed to be coming from not out here, not from what everybody expected or wanted you to say, but there was an inner strength and an inner knowingness that came from a sense of wisdom I saw in you. So then when I read that all this time you were suffering, I'm like...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
How could that be true? So when you became prime minister in 2017, you said that you planned on using kindness as your guiding principle.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
You say kindness has a power. What do you think that power is? And a strength that almost nothing else on this planet has.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
It's a different kind of power and being able to tap into that power is what this book is all about. And also the new documentary, Prime Minister, which is so revelatory and really a thrill to watch.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
I am so glad you're here for this very special episode of the Oprah Podcast with former Prime Minister of New Zealand, Dame Jacinda Ardern. Coming up, I ask her to take us back to the moment she found out she won her historic election at just 37 years old, becoming the youngest female head of state in the world. It was also the same moment she found out she was pregnant.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
We're going to find out what was going on inside her head as she managed to lead a country that with a baby in her arms, a story that made international headlines. All of you moms will appreciate this coming up. Stay with us.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
The documentary will be released exclusively in theaters on June 13th, just a week from now as we're speaking. Jacinda Ardern, welcome. Thank you. What a pleasure to be here. It is such an honor to have you here. Oh, the treat is all mine. Thank you. Well, I have to tell you, I had the... I don't even know what you call it, my first experience in New Zealand.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. It means the world to me that you take the time out of your day for my first ever conversation with former Prime Minister of New Zealand, the Right Honorable Dame Jacinda Ardern. I've wanted to sit down and talk with her for so many years. I've admired her. We're discussing her new memoir, A Different Kind of Power.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
I love that title and the new documentary called Prime Minister, which is a deeply personal look inside her life while she was in office at 37 years old. Wow. She became the youngest female head of state in the world and a mother at the exact same time. Double wow. Let's get back to our conversation.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
So was it after you stepped into the role of prime minister or before that you'd made a decision that I'm going to do this differently than I've ever seen anybody else do it? Because nobody, even if they were trying to do it a little bit, ever announced that kindness is going to be my principle.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Jacinda Ardern: A Different Kind of Power
That's why it's so unusual to me that you are and have been such a strong leader and particularly in the arena of politics, because I think it requires in general and also specifics. We can look at different people in the world, various leaders in the world. It requires a pretty huge ego to do it.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Hi, it's Oprah, and welcome to my podcast. I am delighted and excited to begin sharing conversations with experts, with thought leaders, with writers around the human experience and what really matters in this one precious life we have, as poet Mary Oliver famously has said.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
I want to take a moment now to introduce you to Maureen Sullivan, who was just 12 years old when she was taken from her family and sent to live in one of the laundries. And she wrote about her experience in her memoir called Girl in the Tunnel. These are excerpts from the documentary Ireland's Dirty Laundry, which was produced by New Decade Films. Here's a brief look at Maureen's story.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Hi, everybody, and thank you so much for joining us. I think this is so cool. We are bringing great books, great coffee, and great conversation together in the best place to do it, Starbucks! Thank you so much. Now, listen to this. Every month, I'm going to have a new book club pick, and Starbucks is going to pair a delicious cup of curated coffee.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
In 1964, 12-year-old Maureen Sullivan, who grew up in an impoverished home, says she bravely made a confession to a nun at her school.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Maureen says when inspectors came to the laundry, the nuns would hide her in dark tunnels for hours without food or water.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Maureen is Zooming in with us today from her home in Carlow, Ireland. Maureen, hi there. Hi. Hello. Hello. Thank you for being with us today. Thank you. I know you've read Clare's book. What kind of emotions came up for you when you were reading small things like these?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Really? Even with all the stories in the news? Because one of the things Claire was sharing with us is that, first of all, this was happening in the 80s. And the last laundry was closed when in 1996. I think so.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
very, very recent that this was happening. And I hear that you felt so broken from the trauma in your 30s that you even attempted suicide.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
How old were you when you were thinking of killing yourself?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
So what is the thing that has helped you to heal? First of all, you know, God bless you. I read your book, which is available on Amazon. It's called Girl in the Tunnel. So those of you who have read small things like these, if you want a true, true story of what really happened, Maureen's book, Girl in the Tunnel, I just can't imagine anything the kind of courage and will it takes to be you.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
The pairing for this book is Christmas blend coffee, which pairs perfectly with the December book because it takes place, wouldn't you know it, at Christmas time. And then we'll have conversation with the author inside Starbucks cafes all around the country. books, coffee, and conversation.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
You are one strong, powerful woman. Thank you. Thank you so much. Just one strong, powerful woman. To come through what you did, the assault, abuse, and constant sexual molestation from your stepfather and your mother knew, your mother knew, And I love that first chapter in Girl in the Tunnel when you say, what did I do wrong? What did I do wrong?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
You simply told on him, and by telling on your stepfather, who was constantly sexually assaulting you, you then were sent to the laundries, to an even worse existence.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
I'm so sorry. This is the thing that is so striking, those of you who will read Girl in the Tunnel, Your stepfather was a pure predator because not only was he sexually assaulting you on a regular basis and everybody in the house knew, certainly your mother knew and your grandmother knew, but nobody could do anything about it. But he did what a lot of predators do. He started calling you a liar.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Maureen is a liar. Maureen is a liar. And he started doing that long before you told so that when you did tell, nobody would believe you. So even at school, kids would call you Maureen the liar.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Your mother started calling you a liar.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
I love this idea because I think that sharing ideas and connecting in person makes life sweeter and definitely more fun. So here's the thing. You are the very first audience. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So my 109th book club pick was listed by the New York Times as one of the 100 best books of the 21st century. And I had never read it. It is a novella.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Well, Small Things Like These has been made into a movie this year, co-produced by Matt Damon and Ben Affleck, and it stars Oscar-winning Irish actor Cillian Murphy. And I say, read the book first. Read the book first, Small Things Like These. Maureen, I hear you went to the premiere. How was that experience for you? And I hear you've seen it now multiple times.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
So do you feel by small things like these, Claire's book, and now this book being made into a movie, do you feel some sense of validation that you have been heard? Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Yeah. And I think you're starting to heal because you can be heard. And just know that all of us at the Starbucks Cafe here, We hear you. We hear you, Maureen. Thank you. We hear you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. Maureen's book, Girl in the Tunnel, is available on Amazon.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
How does it feel to know that the story you have written has now enabled many of these women who still are alive to start the healing process for themselves?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Erin, where are you? You have a question? Yeah, go ahead.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
I was going to ask you all, if you could have coffee with anybody in the book, who would that be? Mrs. Wilson. I would choose Mrs. Wilson. I was going to choose Mrs. Wilson. Were you going to choose Mrs. Wilson for real?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Why would you choose Mrs. Wilson?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
It's small, only 114 pages. And it's by Claire Keegan. And it's called Small Things Like These. Small Things Like These is set in 1985 in the small town of New Ross, Ireland. At that time in Ireland, the Catholic Church held power over the culture. Author Claire Keegan's story centers around Bill Furlong, a husband and father of five daughters who runs a coal delivery service.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Yeah. There's a line you used to describe her like she was a woman who could make her own decisions or a woman who could decide for herself. And I just thought, I want to talk to that woman who at that time was able to do that. And it feels it feels so dated. I was talking to some of the group earlier. We were saying this feels like it's the 50s or something.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
It feels so it doesn't feel like it was the 80s.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Well, we wanted to know how young women in Ireland today feel about this book. And my team talked to two high school friends from Claire's hometown of Wicklow. They're joining us now from a nearby Starbucks in Bray, Ireland. Hello, Frances and Lena Rose. Hi.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
What kind of coffee are you having today? Chai latte. Chai latte. I believe in it. So tell us, I hear you encouraged your high school teacher to have your class read small things like these. And each student is now writing a paper about the book. How great is that? Way to go, Lena Rose.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
So as young women, we were just talking about how this... doesn't feel like it was as recent as the 80s and 90s. And in 1996, I know you still weren't born, but as late as 1996, these stories were still happening. So as a young woman, how does that make you view your history in the country?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
So wise, girls. So wise. Do you have a question for Claire?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Good luck with your studies and thanks for getting more people to read small things like these. Thank you, Frances and Lena Rose. Thank you. Thank you both. When you wrote this, I'm sure, I don't know if writers think about it moving on from generation to generation and now that it's, you know, being read in classes and all of that. It does what for you as an author?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
The town is home to a convent and one of Ireland's Magdalene laundries, also known as mother and baby homes, run by Catholic nuns. For decades, it was an open secret that tens of thousands of young women in Ireland who were pregnant out of wedlock were housed in these institutions against their will. They were forced to work in the laundries without pay or the freedom to leave.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Wow. Because that misogyny just moves from generation to generation. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Yeah. The whole idea of your husband comes home and you're there to greet him and to make his life as easy as possible and going through the whole, the things that we heard our mothers did and their mothers did and their mothers did that we have been liberated from.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
I think to be reminded that in the 80s and 90s, this was still very prevalent in other parts of the world is important for we as women people particularly to know. And those of you who are guys who read this, did it surprise you?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Wow, yeah. Did you relate to him?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Okay, I heard you see this as a love story. Tell us why.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
And I think this too, I was saying this to our group earlier, that I think that people are able to give, you all think about this question, is it true for you? And also for people in your life, not just the characters that we read about and small things like these. You are able to give love in direct proportion to how you've been able to receive it.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
And exactly what you were saying about Bill Furlong, he was able to do that because he was loved, loved by his mother for as long as she was there able to give it to him. But also the kindness shown him, the care shown to him, just that one day Mrs. Wilson patted him on the head and he walked around that whole day and even longer thinking that he was somebody and as good as the other kids.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
I think you're able to do that in direct proportion to how you're given it. And if you're not given it, you never receive what you needed. You walk around bitter and that's what's coming out of you all the time. And so often what we see from people is the bitterness from the love they never received. That's what I think. Yeah. Erica, what is your question? What is your question for Claire, Erica?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
We're starting off with a fascinating conversation with acclaimed Irish author Claire Keegan about her novella, Small Things Like These. Claire is a brilliant writer and also quite funny. She had so many insights to share. She had me and everybody in our audience at Starbucks really seeing things in a new light. And I hope you enjoy it. And I appreciate so much you joining the Oprah podcast.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
While delivering coal to the convent and laundry, Bill Furlong encounters a young woman who has been locked in a shed with no food, water, or even a toilet. She tells him her baby has been taken away from her.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Oh, we love that. All of us readers went, oh, thanks. We the reader, we complete the book. Would you agree, Dennis? That's true. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Uh, Nuro, Nuro, where are you? Okay. Nuro with the pink shoes. Go ahead.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Not having sadness would be death for empathy. I do think that. Oh, that's so brilliant.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
We are aha-ing all over the damn place. All over the Starbucks cafe. That is such a big aha.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
As the story progresses, Bill confronts memories of his own childhood being born out of wedlock and how the local people and even his own wife encourage him to ignore the young woman locked in the shed. Claire Keegan's exquisite writing examines Bill's struggle to go against the church and the dire consequences weighing on him.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
You get hurt and get hard. That is true. So many people have done that. This is what I so appreciated, and I think you're talking about this. This is on page 113. He found himself asking, was there any point in being alive without helping one another?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Was it possible to carry on along through all the years, the decades, through an entire life without once being brave enough to go against what was there and yet call yourself a Christian and face yourself in the mirror? I thought that was just so poignant. And also, the thing for me is the very last sentence of the book.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Climbing the street towards his own front door with the barefooted girl in the box of shoes. His fear more than outweighed every other feeling. But in his foolish heart, he not only hoped, but legitimately believed that they would manage. Okay. We need a sequel. Because what happens?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
I mean, we were all saying this morning, when he gets home, Eileen is going to blow her... She's going to be that emoji with the blown head off, right? And it's not... One of the things we appreciate about the story is that You don't know what's going to happen except it's not going to be easy. And that's why his fear outweighs every other emotion and also why it is the ultimate act of bravery.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Because you have to have fear in order to be courageous.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Because he's going to, he knows it's going to keep his girls out of that school. His girls aren't going to be able to go to that school. Those nuns are going to make life miserable for him.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
And Eileen is going to resent him forever. She's never getting over it.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Eileen is mad right now. She's mad. Eileen is mad that there's a book. And Eileen is mad that there's a movie. She's mad that Lena Rose and Frances are talking about it. Eileen is just mad. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
And obviously still are, based on what Lena Rose and Frances were saying, people still don't want to talk about it.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
So do you think your book And the subsequent movie with Oscar winner Cillian Murphy playing the role of Bill Furlong, that that is going to open up the conversation in a way that hasn't been. Because storytelling does that in a way that no news story can.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
On page 113, she writes, he found himself asking, was there any point in being alive without helping one another? Our audience has read this book, and don't you think it's a classic? Yeah. Yeah. It's a classic. How many of you have read it more than one time already? More than one time already. Okay. That's really good.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Well, what a brave thing for you. Were you afraid ever in writing the story of what might happen to you as a writer or what people would say or how the book would be received or not be published?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Well, we're glad you wrote this one. Thank you, Claire Keegan, for small things like these. Thank you. And thank you all for your thoughtful questions. Thank you. Thank you. To everyone watching and listening, if you haven't bought the book yet, it's the perfect, it's a wonderful stocking stuffer for the holiday season.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
If it's right in a stocking, you can grab a bag of Christmas blend coffee, put a little cup in there too and put a ribbon on it and you got yourself a gift. Thank you. Thank you so much, all of our fantastic readers. Thank you, Starbucks, for supporting us. Thank you. We hope you'll become a part of the book club.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Subscribe to the podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. We're excited for a fun year of books, coffee, and conversation. Thanks, everybody. Small things like these.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
So I am so happy that the author of this beautiful story, Small Things Like These, Clara Keegan, has traveled all the way from Ireland. Let's welcome her here to Starbucks. Thank you. Well done. Well done. And thank you for being here. Thank you for being here.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
When we meet the main character, Bill Furlong, is this somebody you knew or a composite of somebody you knew? Or how did you come? Was he what came to your mind first when you were writing the story?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
And he has agency and he can do something. Whereas a child wouldn't be able to do something. I love the way authors think! I love the way stories arise from nowhere and you were able to put words on a page and leave us with something that is so profound. And I heard that you said stories go looking for their authors, that they even exist already. Do you believe that?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
You don't find the story.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Yeah. Yeah. When did you know that you were a writer, that you were able to meet the story? For this one, you mean? At any time. When you first recognized that you were able to recognize the story that had come to you and to take that and put it, form words on a page.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Hi, everybody, and thank you so much for joining us. I think this is so cool. Clara Keegan has traveled all the way from Ireland. Let's welcome her here to Starbucks. Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Okay, I've heard that you never give a story a title until it's finished, that you... You don't do that, that the title comes to you. You're searching for the title, even as you're writing it.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
That's a separate talent. I think it is. Than actually writing it.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
So when did small things like these occur to you? You know, you make a reference to it here on page 11. Some nights Furlong lay there with Eileen going over small things like these.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Well, we love the title, right? Great. I think it's a precious title. And what does the title mean to you?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Turns into a life. Small things like these turns into life. I love that so much because it reminds me of one of many great lessons I learned from my mentor and teacher, Maya Angelou, who said to me that your legacy isn't one thing, but your legacy is every life you touch. It's everyone you encounter during the day. It's how you treat every single human being you encounter.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
You're leaving and building your legacy every day from the small things and the extraordinary things. So you said that Bill Furlong wasn't inspired by anybody you know. So often we read about main characters who are good people, who make a wrong decision or do something bad. you know, where we're talking about, and then have to recover from it. This story is so different. How did you develop him?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
We are ah-ha-ing all over the damn place. All over the Starbucks cafe. That is such a big ah-ha. Starbucks kind of day. This is Claire Keegan, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Did you all follow that? Okay. The holidays at Starbucks are even brighter with the new Cranberry Orange Lemonade Refresher. Flavors of sweet orange, tart cranberry, and warm spice shaken with ice and lemonade add a refresh to your most festive moments. Order yours in the app.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
You follow someone's feet through time because that will lead them to what they want.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Well, I had never thought this before. I love the idea of having a thought I never thought before. I never thought this before. I also, you've said that elegance to me is writing just enough. And about Bill's character, you said a longer novel would not have suited his personality. I'm so curious how you came to know that.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
Yes, but isn't he also in that period that so many men have in their lives and women, of course, but I never thought of men thinking about these things. Women actually talk about these things like, what is it all for? What am I even doing? What is it all for?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
And look at your life?
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
So I want to ask the audiences, had you all heard or knew about the Magdalene laundries before this? You all had? Oh, you very educated people. I have to tell you, I had never, who had not heard? Not heard, not heard. I had not heard, and who had heard? Y'all are, I'm impressed. I had never heard.
The Oprah Podcast
Claire Keegan: “Small Things Like These”| Oprah’s Book Club
In the dedication of the book you write, the story is dedicated to the women and children who suffered time in Ireland's mother and baby homes and the Magdalene laundries. Our audience came with plenty of questions. Katie, where are you? Go ahead.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Thank you all for joining the Oprah Podcast and for watching us on YouTube. I appreciate you taking the time to spend it here with me. And I am just so appreciative of the conversations we're having about things that impact all of our lives. And I'm guessing you all have been hearing a lot about menopause these days.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Can you tell me what has been the most delightful surprise for you about sex post age 50 and how does your company Stripes play into that?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Well, dare I say thank you for joining us again. Okay. Naomi, I know you have to get back to work.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
This is one of the many reasons I love Zoom. Thank you for taking the time out of your workday schedule to be with us. Thank you. All right. Well, I just want to make sure that everyone understands that this is a natural cycle of life. Yes. You say this in grown woman talk, not a disease. And the hormonal changes during perimenopause are as significant as those in puberty and in pregnancy.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
So imagine going into puberty and not knowing anything about what's going to happen to your body, which a lot of us women did. Nobody had said anything about what a period is and what the hormones were going to do and all of that. And so many women are experiencing the same going into menopause because their doctors don't even know. There's a lack of an awareness and information from doctors.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
From what I've learned from you and other doctors, it's not even taught in medical school.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
And then there's still all these people who have never heard about menopause and what it means for all of our lives.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Yes. Yeah. I was talking to Dr. Haver, who was saying she had an hour of training about it, a discussion about it, and was in another session that lasted six hours. So you come out of medical school with seven hours of training. So Since 2002, doctors have been trained about it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
And obviously, so many doctors even, I think, are still confused about the Women's Health Initiative study done in 2002, which said, can you clear that up for us to understand what actually happened? This is one of the reasons. The reason why this is so important is because this 2002 study is the reason why so many people are afraid of hormone replacement therapy.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Have to go together if you have a uterus, yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
This is the point that got everybody, made everybody nuts.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
So I'm hoping those of you who are seeing this, if you're watching for yourself, that you pass it on to somebody who you also know needs it. Let's start by you explaining the four stages of women's reproductive and post reproductive lives. Can you walk us through what they are?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Well, I would understand why. Yes. Because I remember I was doing the Oprah show when this happened and it was a big announcement and everybody was like, oh, that's it. Exactly. Hormone replacement therapy is dangerous. It causes cancer. And now what we're hearing, what I hear you saying, and I've heard other doctors say, this was a flawed study. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
But it became the narrative. It's what people believe. It's the reason why my best friend still won't do an HRT because she's like, she wrote about her in the book, still won't do an HRT because she's like, I don't know, I think it causes cancer.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
And do we know for sure that HRT, that hormone replacement therapy, helps now cardiovascular issues with women?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
We've got people joining us on Zoom with questions. Trisha and her husband, Stephen, are joining us from Edina, Minnesota. What's going on with you, Trish?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
You do that very well in Grown Talk, but I want you to share it with people who haven't read the book yet.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
That's, I think, how so many women feel. And I'm so happy to see Stephen standing or sitting by your side in support of. I know you told the producers, Stephen, that if men went through menopause, things would be much different. How do you think?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
What did you think was happening? What did you think was happening? Since Trish didn't know what was happening, and I know, I don't know many men who've been raised with any idea of what it is.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
So she has to shut it down, right? She just has to shut it down is what I heard you say. Yeah.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
I mean, you know, and I'm like, so what is your question for Dr. Malone, Trish?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
And you list the 34 symptoms in grown woman talk.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
But the more I talk about it, the more I realize we need a Menopause 101 because there's still so much There's so much confusion still out there, and we need reliable information, and we need facts. Menopause is not a disease or a disorder, but a natural part of aging that all women born with ovaries will eventually experience.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
You've been on hormones for 15 years.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
And I have read, too, that the moment the symptoms start, that's when you start. You need to start getting help, therapy, assistance with it the moment you get the first symptom.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
I've heard that too. I don't believe in them. I don't believe in them.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Thank you, Tricia. Thank you, Stephen. Thank you both for joining us. Thank you. I hope it gets better. I hope it gets better.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
You're getting there. Thank you. My hope is that this conversation with Dr. Sharon Malone will help you become more informed about your own body and menopause, which is a natural part of aging that one billion women all over the world are experiencing right now. Stay with us. We'll be back in a moment.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
But all of the things that we normally associate... Isn't the sometimes regularly and sometimes not a real indication that you're in peri?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
住住住住住��������� cle住住住住住住住住住住住 voyage voyage voyage voyage���etetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetet����� cle cle住住住住住acetetetetetetetetetetetetet cleac cleacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacacetetet�etetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetTV
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
You're not going to say, oh, well, guess what? You get no bonus points, Amina, for having endured it. All right? I get it now.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Tell your family.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
They were right. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much, Amina. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening. I'm glad you joined me here on the Oprah Podcast. We'll be back. There are some common questions for menopause expert and Alloy Chief Medical Advisor, Dr. Sharon Malone, after this.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Hi and welcome back. So glad to be with you here. I'm with New York Times bestselling author, Dr. Sharon Malone, talking with people who have questions about their menopause symptoms. Esther is a mom of two. Zooming in from one of my favorite places. Maui, hello. Welcome.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
We certainly know it helps you with brain fog.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
But you can't take HRTs because of...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
I think that they just don't know.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
I was just going to say we deserve better.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Esther, thank you. Thank you for Zooming in from Maui. Have a beautiful day out there. Beautiful day. Dr. Malone, I know you believe that perimenopause should actually be thought of as a time for celebration. Tell us why.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
You're done.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
over it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
When all the women are complaining about turning 40 and 45, I just go, oh, honey, if you only knew it gets better. It gets better.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
We do. We do. Thank you, Dr. Malone. Thank you for writing this really profound book, Grown Woman Talk. And thank you to all of my guests for joining us today. Naomi Watts from SET, Trish and Stephen, Kylie, Amina, and Esther. Dr. Malone's book, Grown Woman Talk, is available anywhere you buy your books. And it's filled with just...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
I would say essential information and more insights on what it means to grow and age beautifully. Dr. Malone and I are talking again in a few weeks about treatments for menopause and a new study that showed that more than half of women age 30 to 35 are experiencing moderate to severe symptoms of perimenopause. We'll be talking with women in their early 30s about their questions and concerns.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
So keep an eye out for that on the Oprah podcast. Go well, everybody. Thank you. You can subscribe to The Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Yes, you did.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Yes. Because menopause is what I've learned. It is losing the eggs. So you no longer have eggs. You have automatically gone into menopause. Exactly. That's right. That's
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
But the natural process is losing your eggs, which means you are no longer able to produce a child.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Menopause occurs when a woman has gone 12 months without a period, which means her ovaries have stopped producing hormones and her body is no longer capable of reproduction. For most women, menopause occurs between the ages of 45 and 55. But before you enter menopause, your body will go through a transitional period known as paramenopause, which can begin as early as your mid-30s.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
I thank you for taking the time out of your busy day to listen to this episode about our health and well-being. We'll have more of my conversation about menopause with the author of Grown Woman Talk, Dr. Sharon Malone, after these messages.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Welcome back to more of my conversation with Dr. Sharon Malone about the latest science on menopause. I want to bring in actress and activist Naomi Watts to this conversation. She, too, has a new book, Dare I Say It? Everything I Wish I'd Known About Menopause. It's a New York Times bestseller. Naomi, I hear you're on set. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me, Oprah. Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
What was the inspiration for you to write it? Because you were going through it or had been through it?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
And what symptoms were the most frustrating for you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Paramenopause can last anywhere from 4 to 10 years and may include symptoms like hot flashes, fatigue, mood swings, dry skin, dry everything, and low libido. To help us understand more about the menopausal journey, I invited Dr. Sharon Malone to the podcast. Dr. Malone has been a pioneer and nationally renowned expert in menopause for over three decades.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
I know we're going to talk about HRTs with Dr. Malone because there is so much confusion, misconception about HRTs. I've been on them for, I think now, well, for whenever I was 54, that's when I went on HRTs. So I believe them. What is HRT? Can you explain that, Dr. Malone?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
And I hear some women are also now taking a little bit of testosterone also.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Okay, we're going to talk more about that. But in your book, I think this is really an interesting aspect, Naomi, because in your book, chapter 12 is titled Minnow Boss and how to deal with ageism in the workplace. What advice would you give menopausal women who...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
I think in many cases start to feel invisible at work and also feel a level of embarrassment and shame about going through this change because there is no – number one, they don't understand it and the culture doesn't understand it.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
Yeah, I'm so happy to hear that's changing. We all know your husband is actor and producer Billy Crudup. In the book, you write about honest conversations you've had with him. I'm not going into details today, but what's your advice for women who have not talked to the men in their lives about this? I mean, it was one of your earlier conversations with him.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
She is the chief medical advisor for Alloy Women's Health and the New York Times bestselling author of Grown Woman Talk. So happy to have you here, Dr. Malone. Thank you so much for having me, Oprah. You know, it's what we were saying before, that I feel like I've been talking about it and talking about it and talking about it. And you say you talk about it. It's every day.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Dr. Sharon Malone on Everything You Need to Know About Menopause
So tell us a bit about this wellness brand you created, Stripes Beauty, from scalp to vag. What has been the response?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Thank you all for joining me on the Oprah podcast for this special episode. Before we start, it's important for those of you listening or watching to know that this conversation is around sexual assault, and it may be very challenging to hear. And most importantly, this is absolutely not an appropriate conversation for young children.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Yes, to rape their wives. To rape their wives, yeah. To rape their wives. And so you write on page 27, what depths of dishonesty does it take to have maintained all these years the tranquil illusion that everything was normal? So I know your mother even felt like your father doted on her. Didn't you all think he doted on her? He loves her. This is a great marriage.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
No. Or flirting with other women or anything.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
You felt that they were devoted. And in the police station, when she first arrived, when they asked her, what was your relationship? She said her husband was a great man and a great neighbor and all those things. How would you describe him as a father to you growing up?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
After Giselle met with Felice, she called her three grown children, Caroline, David, and Florian, to tell them the shocking truth about the father they thought they knew. Caroline courageously shares her family's unimaginable ordeal in her gripping memoir, I'll Never Call Him Dad Again. So welcome, Caroline. Thank you for having me here today.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And that is a whole lot to have to reckon with. the father that you've known to be the devoted husband to your mother and to be there caring for you and always interested in you. And then to realize that there was this whole other side of this man that you didn't know about. So I realized that a few days you write in, I'll never call him dad again.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
You write that you were called to the police station a few days after your mother and father had been there and she had recognized that, First of all, how did she react in the beginning? Did she... I mean, there's a picture of her body, you know, lying there in the bed or wherever she was placed. And she can see that she's out of it, that she's drugged.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And it's one man after another man after another man. How did she even...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Because it was a real shock for her. Those of you who are listening to us or watching, you know, hopefully you won't have to go through something as horrible as that. But you know, when you go through something that is shocking, when you have been betrayed... It feels like it strips you of everything you thought you knew.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
It strips you of your own identity because here I was a person who believed all this time that you were a certain way. So what does that say about me that I couldn't see that? You know, it just causes people to question themselves. Did that happen with you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Absolutely. Okay, so let's go back. The police called you back to the station and what did they show you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Yeah, when you're looking at, but, okay, so you're brought back to the police station and the police show you pictures that they've taken from your father's computer of you in a pair of panties that you don't even recognize. I don't recognize them. And you are knocked out. You don't recall even where or how that could have been.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
It was also you. It was also you. That leaves me speechless because to recognize, first of all, the day before that your father has been calling in strangers to rape your mother and drugging her for over a decade. And then the next day to be called in and to see pictures of yourself drugged. Immediately, your thought goes to, did he also rape me?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
You traveled 24 hours to get here to do this interview. So I deeply, deeply appreciate that. I have to say, reading your book, I Will Never Call Him Dad Again, was... What is the word? It was shocking and it was infuriating and so, so, so, so disturbing. And so many unimaginable occurrences. I mean, just unimaginable. And every time I turn the page, I'd say, it can't get worse.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
What does he say? Because... My thing is if you see the pictures of your mother knocked out and obviously she was raped because he filmed everything. He obviously didn't film himself or anybody with you, but there are the pictures. Why does he say he took the pictures of you knocked out and drugged?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And why does he say he drugged you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
The pictures were in a file. And the file was labeled something. What was the file labeled?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Oh, so an IT expertise found those photographs that had been deleted. It's a lot. So he tried to actually get rid of those photographs. Exactly. A week after our interview, Caroline filed a legal complaint against her father, accusing him of drugging and sexually abusing her over a 10-year period when she was in her 30s.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Caroline says she filed with the prosecutor as a message to all victims that you must never give up. Later they found pictures of your sister-in-law. Is it your sister-in-law? You had two sister-in-laws. I have two sister-in-laws, yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Yes, no woman in this family, in this immediate family, was spared. What was your mother's reaction when you told her that they had found photos of you and your father's files? She wasn't able to react.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
From reading the book, I know things might have changed since you wrote the book. From reading the book, it appeared to me that your mom still did not believe that your father sexually assaulted you, that she could wrap her head around the fact that she had been raped by all of those men and that he had called them in for years and she was drugged. But there was something about
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
her not being able to accept that it actually happened to you. And at one point, that became a great tension between you because she said, you know, why do you keep, you know, talking about this or fixating on this? I mean, he wasn't mean his whole life or he was good for a part of your life, is what she said.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And then it would get worse. And then I heard that you said that this was... Writing of this story was an opportunity for you to actually state a way of surviving for yourself. And my intention is to invite everyone who hears us to learn something as a society so that in Caroline's mother's words, shame must change sides. And reading your book, as I was saying, I kept thinking it can't get worse.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
So what did this do, Caroline, to the relationship between you and your mother? Because at one point you write in the book, one brother was siding with the mother and the other brother was siding with you. What did this do to the whole family? Because no one wanted to believe that this had actually happened to you, even though you have the pictures.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And it's interesting, you do write to, and say it so beautifully, I forgot the phrase about how you are the daughter of both the victim and the perpetrator. Yeah, yeah. Next, Caroline Darion tells me how her father managed to keep his dark secret hidden from his family, the police, and everyone else for nearly a decade.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
She also describes what it was like for her own mother to face 51 of her rapists during the grueling trial. Stay with us. Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. I want to remind you that this conversation contains discussion about sexual assault. It may be triggering for those watching or listening. This interview is not appropriate for children.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
I'm speaking to Caroline Darian, author of the new book, I'll Never Call Him Dad Again, in which she shares her family's unfathomable ordeal. Her own father spent nearly a decade drugging his wife, Caroline's mother, then inviting men to come into their home to rape her unconscious body on camera. So after seeing the photos of yourself, it became too much to bear.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And there's no one listening to us or watching us right now who doesn't understand that your brain just can't even... You're first trying to process, my mother has been raped by 70 different men. That's on November 2nd. And then on November 3rd, you're brought back to the police station. You see pictures of yourself. And now you've got to process what happened to me. And it was too much to bear.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And you ended up just having a breakdown. What does a breakdown feel like? Can you share with us? What is happening when you break down?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
So you went into hospital for how long?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Yeah. Almost 72. Just to sort of get your brain straightened out.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Chemical submission occurs when a perpetrator uses drugs to make someone unconscious or incapacitated in order to commit a crime against them. Although chemical submission is not new, Gisele Pelico's case drew renewed attention to the method being used specifically to perpetrate sexual assaults. This type of crime has been on the rise for 20 years in France.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
In the United States, this crime is referred to as drug-facilitated sexual assault. It is also on the rise here in America, but difficult to prosecute due to lack of evidence. You talk in the book how you and your mother were not supported as rape victims should be. You're told this information and then just left on your own. I got the impression from your story, though, that...
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And every time it did. I have to say I am in awe of your courage. I think a statue should be built in honor of your mother. I think what she has done for women in the world, regardless of what kind of challenge or difficulty or atrocities that women have been through, that her being able to stand up for the Pelican name
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
At times, the police were sympathetic because they couldn't even believe what they were pulling up. They couldn't believe themselves. That's the impression I got from the book. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this man, Dominique, the man you'll never call dad again, had done this to his wife.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Nobody had ever even heard of this before.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
It was for them. Coming to a nice little French neighborhood, suburban home. The men would park down the street. Can we talk for a minute about the 50 men accused? They know that there were at least 70, but they were able to identify 50 of the men from the tapes because Caroline's father, had one condition for the men. He didn't charge the men to come in and rape his wife.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
He only insisted that he'd be able to film it. And therefore, all of those men who raped Gisele Pellicole over a period of more than a decade, all of those men are on tape. And they ranged in ages from 26 years old to 74 years old. And they come from all backgrounds. One was a sales manager. I heard one was a journalist. There was a firefighter. They're all fathers and grandfathers.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And one of the perpetrators I heard was also one of your mom's neighbor, right?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And one of the men was HIV positive.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
He came seven times.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And was HIV positive and obviously never said he was HIV positive. So your mom did not contract the disease. She's a miracle. That's a miracle.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And he didn't use a condom. No, never have. None of these men were using condoms.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
So wouldn't your mom have... You know, vaginal infections or urinary tract infections. Weren't there always something going on with her?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
In 2019, when Giselle told Caroline that she'd been bleeding heavily from her vagina, Caroline brought her mother to a gynecologist. The doctor detected an inflammation of her uterine passage and prescribed some antifungal ointment and left it at that. So at one point from prison, I think your father wrote a letter to his brother. He wrote a letter.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Your father writes a letter to his brother saying that life is too hard and Caroline's anger is making it worse. He then writes to his brother, try to calm her, meaning you, down. What was your reaction when you read that letter? First of all, he's not even supposed to be writing letters from prison, is what I understood in the beginning, contacting the family.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
gives the opportunity for every other woman to look inside herself and stand up. And I think for you, Caroline, to be willing to speak the truth of your life and this horrific story is just an act of victory and triumph, and it shows that you are a mighty woman. You are a mighty woman, and so is your mother. So I thank you for writing this book. I mean, I can't imagine.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
���住住住住住 cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle�������� cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet cle cle Athlet cle cle Athlet cle Athlet cle cle Athlet cle cle Athlet cle Athlet cle cle Athlet cle cle Athlet cle Athlet cle cle Athlet cle Athlet cle�� cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle cle住acac Athletacac Athletacac Athlet住 Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athlet Athletketketket住 disput住 disput住 disputacac子住 disput住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住住osket disputacketacacketacacketacacketacacketacacketacacketacTV
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
So today I'm speaking with Caroline Darion, who traveled here to California from her home just outside of Paris. And this is her first American interview. In 2020, 67-year-old Dominique Pellicot, reportedly a devoted grandfather, father, and husband, was arrested near where he lived in the south of France. He was caught filming up women's skirts at a supermarket.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Well, I actually can imagine because in the telling of the story, you tell us how many times you had a breakdown. But you say that for you, this became a question of survival.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Thank you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
the more vulnerable people so i wanted i really wanted to make something useful and to go beyond you know this uh terrible legacy yeah well four years ago let's go back to four years ago you were living a life that you called a simple and ordinary life uh i know many women around the world can relate to this and certainly here in the united states you had a home in the suburbs
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And when you know the criminal past of Dominique Perico... Didn't he say he just wanted to look at you?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Next, as my conversation with Caroline Darion continues, we speak with a mom in Minnesota whose case is eerily similar. She discovered videos on her husband's flash drive that would upend her marriage and her life.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
In her first American interview, I'm speaking with Caroline Darion, a French woman coming to terms with the vile actions of her father, which she details in her new book, I'll Never Call Him Dad Again. I think it's important for all of us to note that Caroline's family's case is
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
made global headlines because it was so extreme and her father was caught with over 20 000 pieces of evidence authority has told us that these types of drug induced intimate partner crimes are on the rise but are extremely difficult to detect and, of course, to prosecute.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And so before this interview, I asked Caroline if she would be okay if we invited Jenny Thiessen to our conversation, and she said yes. Jenny now joins us from Minnesota. Hi, Jenny. I know you've been watching and listening and can relate to Caroline's story. You were married, I understand, to your college sweetheart for 12 years, and then you made a shocking discovery. What was it?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And what was your immediate reaction to that?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
you had a really good job that you enjoyed. A husband and a six-year-old son. You were very close with your two brothers and your parents who had retired to this picturesque village in the south of France. So take us back to... November 2nd, 2020, the day all of that all came crashing down.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
He's raping you and you are drugged. And this was used in your court case. We also asked Caroline ahead of this time if she's okay for us to show this. So Kim, we're going to roll this tape, okay? And you tell us, what are we seeing here?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Do you recall any of this? Do you recall any of this at all?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Okay.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And I will have to say, I really appreciate in the book how you reflect back to ordinary things like the kids in the pool and the moments at the grocery store and just ordinary, simple things that are going through your life. And then this horrible thing happens and nothing is ever the same again.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Yeah. And I wanted to say to everybody, we're showing the video with your permission not to exploit the story, but just to see how it happens. I remember when I saw it for the first time, I'm sure you felt had similar feelings. It's just so vile and creepy and disgusting that someone you're sleeping next to every night whom you trust could do that to you.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Well, you will see yourself many times over and I'll never call him dad again because you're you. I have to say. that when we saw this story that became a global story, I think a lot of people were thinking, oh, well, that could never happen here in the United States. Not only did it happen, it's like right there in the heart of Minnesota. So thank you so much for sharing your story.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Have you healed from this? Have you healed from this?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Ginny Thiessen was first told that her ex-husband, Matthew Heger, would be charged with a felony which could put him in prison for up to 15 years. However, the felony charge was dropped because of a little-known marital rape loophole in Minnesota law.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Despite being found guilty of a variety of crimes, Heger served less than 30 days in jail for the crimes he committed against Jenny and his former co-workers. Although it was too late for her case, Jenny fought for a bill in Minnesota to remove any protections for spouses who raped their partners. In 2019, Governor Tim Walz signed the bill into law. Okay, so the wrong word is heal.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
I would agree with that. Have you been able to carry on in a way that your life feels like it's still hopeful and that you will be able to one day put this behind you? You're not defined by it is what I'm trying to say.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
What do you say to your children about this? Because... You know, in Caroline's case, she and her brothers were older. They're adults with their own families and children.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
But when you have teenage children, and this is their father who has done this despicable, disgusting thing to you, and you are fighting in the courts, not only fighting in the courts, I want to say you've got the marital rape laws changed in Minnesota. How do you explain this to your children?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Well, thank you for standing up for not just yourself and your daughter, but for all the daughters. Thank you. Thank you, Jenny. In your book, you include a hypothetical letter to your father. Can you read us an excerpt from that? Okay.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
So how have you learned to live with it?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
The campaign is Stop Chemical Submission, Don't Put Me Under. In 2023, Caroline launched the movement to stop chemical submission, Don't Put Me Under, to help rape victims who had been drugged and to raise awareness of this issue among medical professionals and the general public. And what is the mission? What is the goal?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Yes, if somebody comes in and they're having blackouts and blackouts and blackouts.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Chemical submission. So I was so struck how you write in the book, I'll never call him dad again, how you write about the two women in the grocery store. I mean, if the two women at the grocery store had never pressed charges against him for filming up their dress, none of this would have been discovered. I mean, I worry and wonder what would have happened to your mom.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
She just continued to have been drugged. And eventually, what would all of those drugs have done to her brain? What have those drugs have done to her? She probably could have died. Yeah. Yeah. And nobody would have known.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
In December 2024, a French court found Dominique Pellico guilty of repeatedly drugging and raping his wife and orchestrating her rape by dozens of other men. He was given the maximum sentence of 20 years in prison. All 50 of Dominique Pellico's co-defendants were also found guilty of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault, and received sentences ranging from 3 to 15 years.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
You say that for years now you've been trying to find a new way to exist. And during the trial, you also asked, how are you supposed to rebuild yourself from the ruins when you know your father? is the worst sexual predator of the past 20 years. How are you managing to rebuild your life? Your son was six at the time. Now he's 10. Your son was really close to his grandfather.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
You two, just like Jenny, had to tell your son about his grandfather being in jail and try to carry on with your life. How have you been able to rebuild?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
How is your mother? How is she now? I know she moved out of the house. You all moved her out of that house shortly, you know, after all of this happened. And she moved to another area and another neighborhood and is driving again because at one point she didn't even feel safe to drive because she didn't understand where the blackouts were coming from or when she would have a blackout.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
So I understand she's back to driving again. But how is she? She is safe.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Mm-hmm. How is the family relationship? Are you all, would you say, not as close as you used to be? This certainly, from what you wrote in the book, didn't make you closer. So has it still created its distances amongst you and the family?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And then... You were doing such ordinary things. I like how you start in the book talking about you were teaching your son to put on the mask.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And so what's your message now to people who either... have experienced something like this, or the reason why you wanted to share your story and to put it into words that would last forever is because you want people to know what, Caroline?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Yes.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Yes. And, you know, one of the things that I think, you know, nothing this horrible ever happened to me. And I know many of you who will read, I'll never call him dad again. Hopefully nothing so egregious and despicable ever happens to you. But I think what you said earlier in the hypothetical letter to your father is true, right?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
When you have been betrayed and severely betrayed by someone, the hardest thing for anybody who has experienced that kind of betrayal is to admit that you actually never knew who you were. And especially if it's somebody you thought was a good and honest person. And to have to admit to yourself, you know what? I just didn't know. I didn't know who you were.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And be able to forgive yourself for that and be able to, as Ginny said, to move forward. I thank you so much, Caroline. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming all of this way. And thank you, Ginny Thiessen, too, for joining us from Minnesota. The book is I'll Never Call Him Dad Again. And as you have heard from this conversation, it is a riveting and a harrowing read.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
It is available now on Amazon. And I want to take a moment to say, if you or you are or you suspect you are the victim of a sexual assault... If what we have said here today sounds familiar to you, blacking out and can't remember things and this doesn't make sense and all of that, the signals, call the National Sexual Assault Hotline. There's the number on your screen. 1-800-656-4673. Go well.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
You can subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
He was released while awaiting charges. Police seized Dominique's two phones, a camera, and a video recorder, plus several other devices from the home he shared with Giselle, his wife of nearly 50 years. Dominique Pellico confessed to his wife Giselle about that supermarket incident, but nothing could prepare her for what was to come.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Could you even take it in, Caroline, when she's saying, I'm at the police station and I just found out that your father has been raping me and other men have been raping me, dozens and dozens of men have been raping. Could you, I don't even know how you even take that in. So what did your brain do? Did you collapse? Did you scream? No.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Okay, so she found out because she had been brought to the police station with your dad. Your dad had been accused of filming underneath the skirts of other women. So she thought she was going to the police station to witness that or support that or be there for that occasion, correct?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
They take him into a room. They put your mother in a room. She is sitting there, Giselle Pellicot, and she is being asked all these questions about what is your relationship with your husband and what kind of a man is he? And she's feeling... You know, you're being invasive in why you're asking me these questions, correct? And then they show her the photographs.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
And the reason why they have these photographs is because they, the police, had confiscated his computer. Computer. and had originally been investigating him because of the two women that he's charged with filming under their skirts. And then they found all of these pictures and videos that your father, the man you will never call dad again, had been taking for years.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Giselle and Dominique were then summoned to the local police station, she assumed to discuss her husband's case. Instead, police privately informed Giselle that for nearly a decade, her husband had been recording her on his devices and drugging and raping her.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
Coming up next, Caroline Darion reveals how her own father systematically recruited more than 70 men from nearby towns to rape her unconscious mother inside their home for nearly a decade. She shares the details she uncovered next. Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. I'm speaking with Caroline Darion in her first U.S. interview.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
A reminder, this conversation contains discussions about sexual assault and can be triggering for some viewers and listeners. This interview is not appropriate for children at all. Caroline's father's reprehensible crimes made international headlines last year. In her new book, I'll Never Call Him Dad Again, she uncovers how her own father regularly drugged her mother, Giselle,
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
so that she would pass out and then over the course of nearly a decade her father used chat rooms to invite more than seventy strangers into their home on separate occasions to film them raping his own wife caroline's mother so those of you who are not familiar with the story caroline's father
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
went on the internet to some website and invited men into their home, into the marriage that he had been with Gisele Pellico for now 50 years, 50 years, and invited men into the home to come and have sex with his wife. to rape her on a regular basis. This was happening on a regular basis. Because I read in one of the reports that several of the men had been back five and six times.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
by more than 70 different men. By more than 70 different men. And 50 of those men stood trial. Yes. So how did your father drug your mother? And how did you, your brother, David and Florian, how did the children in the family not sense that something was wrong?
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
During that time, Dominique had also invited more than 70 local men, strangers he recruited from chat rooms on the internet to rape his wife as she lay unconscious. He stood by and filmed it all. In total, police discovered more than 20,000 photos and videos on Dominique's devices. in a folder labeled Abuse.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
He would crush sleeping pills.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
During the trial, Dominique confessed that he regularly crushed prescription sleeping pills and anti-anxiety medications into Giselle's meals or her favorite dessert, raspberry ice cream, which he would bring to her in bed. The drugs caused Giselle to have frequent blackouts, insomnia, and bouts of amnesia. She suffered hair loss and also lost 22 pounds over the eight years.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
As Giselle's memory lapses continued, Caroline and her brothers became increasingly concerned that their mother was in the early stages of Alzheimer's disease. Despite several doctor visits and a brain scan, no cause was ever found to explain these episodes. No doctor or family member thought to test her blood for drugs.
The Oprah Podcast
Oprah and Caroline Darian: First Us Interview Since Her Father Dominique Pelicot’s Shocking Trial
He actually had a formula that he would tell the other men about because he was also teaching them how to drug their wives.
The Oprah Podcast
Welcome to the Oprah Channel!
Hi, everybody. I'm excited to share a new project I've been working on. It's all about inspiring conversations and connecting with people who have incredible stories to tell. We're going to be having some really intimate, inspirational conversations with thought leaders and authors and real people discussing topics that matter. Don't miss a moment.
The Oprah Podcast
Welcome to the Oprah Channel!
Follow the Oprah Podcast on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I really look forward to having you join us for these conversations. inspiring conversations.